Shift Points - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.9L IDI Diesels (Not Power Strokes) Technical discussion of topics related to vehicles powered by the 6.9 Liter In-Direct Injection Navistar engines.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Shift Points

Hello Folks.
New guy here with lots of questions.
I have a '84 F250 with the 6.9 and I believe the t19 trans.
The truck has no tach. I can find shift points by mph in the owners manual and believe these are for gas engines. There is nothing dealing with this in the diesel supplement manual. Recommended shift points in the general manual are 1-2 @ 10mph, 2-3@ 15 mph, and 3-4 @ 25 mph. Also recommends 2nd gear starts unless loaded or on an incline. I have always used 1st for starts and shifted by ear lacking a tach.
Question is where are you guys shifting for the good of the engine and economy?


Thanks in advance,
Ed
Ed H is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 01:00 AM
Senior Member
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Memphis, TN 38133, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Posts: 1,025
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
You need to ID the trans first. AFAIK, the T19 didn't come into use until later. I'd expect that truck to have a BW T18 (which is almost indistinguishable from the T19) or NP435 (Aluminum shift tower). Click these & read the captions:

. .

The speed for shifting depends on the RAR & tire size, which you didn't specify. Read that first caption, and put ALL the truck's details into your signature & profile (NOT in a post).

But ultimately, it really comes down to engine RPM & torque - shift as early as you can, but as late as you have to.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Steve83 is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 12:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cody, Wy
Posts: 11,145
My Photos: (27)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Your shift points are totally dependent on the load you're towing. You don't want to lug a diesel engine especially under a heavy load, if you're towing and pulling a long steep grade it's OK to run right up against the governor or close to it. When just driving around town empty there's no need to shift at high RPMs.

Heavy truck and diesel mechanic (thankfully retired after 30+ yrs)
'91 F-250 SC 4X4, 5spd. ATS Turbo, 3:55 diff.
LMJD is offline  
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Appreciate the replies.
Steve83, I will put together a signature to include any important info from the tag inside the door. Excellent idea and I see where it can be very helpful.
My thoughts on the trans being a T19 came only from info I was able to gather from the internet. My transmission has PTO covers on both sides of the case. My understanding is that the T18 has an unsynchroed 1st gear and you cannot downshift to 1st while the truck is moving. I can easily downshift to 1st from any gear. The T19 supposedly has a synchronized 1st. I will be under the truck tomorrow night to take another look at the trans. From what I have read the t18 has the numbers 13-01 on the case ,drivers side. The T19 is numbered 13-09.
LMJD, I understand what you are saying. I have had this truck for 18 years. Seems like a strange time to start asking questions doesn't it. I use to haul a heavy pickup camper and tow large trailers behind her. Not any more. Just a truck topper and fairly light loads.
She has been a great old gal and I would like to keep her running young. With only 134000 on her you can see the truck has only averaged around 4000 miles a year.
Found this site and hoped to find some answers to some questions that I have always had. I will try to provide more info on the truck.
Thanks again,
Ed
Ed H is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 11:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,145
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
I've never heard of an NP transmission behind an IDI. An '84 IDI should have a T19B, which has a closer ratio range than the original T19 (-A?) than went behind the gassers. So yes, those shift points are way off. Steve's last sentence makes the most sense, and since you've been driving it all this time, that's probably what you're already doing, just subconsiously.

Take a look at your injection pump cover. Toward the left side, at about the 2:00 position, is there a big plug on the outside of the cover? If so, you could probably set up a factory tach fairly easily. There is probably also an open electrical connector, two-wire, around the front of the IP. If that's all so, you could get a factory tach sensor (some have even fabbed one from a generic hall effect magnetic sensor) and a tach-equipped diesel cluster, and swap them in. I was able to do this on my '85, which did not come with a tach.

Actually, you're averaging about 7500 miles per year.

Last edited by madpogue; 04-18-2017 at 11:09 AM.
madpogue is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Crawled under the truck after work and found the following on the drivers side of the case.: 13-09-065-911
BORG WARNER
E 18.84 01
From everything I have read this is the T19 trans.
If anyone can explain the meaning of the other numbers it would be appreciated. Also on the door sticker there is the letter J under Trans.

madpogue, thanks much for the info on installing the tach. This was an up coming question that you beat me to. Where would these original parts be found after this length of time? I would be interested in doing this. I take it the entire cluster must be replaced not just adding the tach. Is this much of a job?

Thanks again,
Ed

No offense intended but unless I have totally lost it I stand by my 4000 miles per year.
Ed H is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,145
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
D'OH, I was dividing the 134,000 by the 18 years you mentioned you've owned it, not the 33 it's actually been driven. "Does not pay attention in class", they used to say about me....

You'd have to swap the whole cluster, because the non-tach cluster doesn't even have the part of the circuit membrane needed to connect to the tach. But it's pretty easy. Pop the headlight switch off, remove the wiper knob, remove the bezel, remove the cluster screws, pull cluster backward, disconnect electrical connector(s), disconnect speedo cable. If you want to retain your existing speedo/odo for the mileage, you can swap just that component into the donor cluster.

I took the opportunity to swap in LED illumination lights at the same time. No pun intended, it's like night and day.

As far as parts, IIRC you can get the tach sensor from Ford, but prepare to bend over. Otherwise, junkyards, eBay junkyards (that's where I found my cluster), craigslist, classifieds on this and the other forums.
madpogue is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thank you much sir. I will be trying to run these items down. Figured if I wanted one I would have to do an aftermarket tach.
Again, much appreciated.
Take care,
Ed

'84 F250 2WD Short Cab, 6.9 Liter Stainless Headers Dual Exhaust T19 Trans Dual Tanks Bench Seat LT235/85 R16E Tires
Ed H is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Memphis, TN 38133, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Posts: 1,025
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed H View Post
...
E 18.84 01
...
If anyone can explain the meaning of the other numbers it would be appreciated.
E, being the 5th letter, probably means May 18, 1984 when that housing was cast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed H View Post
Also on the door sticker there is the letter J under Trans.
The only documentation I've found for that letter says it means FMX automatic. But that's impossible for a diesel F350.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed H View Post
Where would these original parts be found after this length of time?
Probably nowhere. At least, not in WORKING condition. But if you can get a tach head with a similar sweep angle, you could swap its guts into the original tach case, and put its sensor somewhere on your engine. IDK if the '80-86 diesel tach is different from the gasser, but the gas tachs have all pretty much died by now. Mine (which came out of an '85) died about 10 years ago. I found a replacement from something else, and it was still working when I switched instrument clusters (and bodies and frames...).

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed H View Post
I take it the entire cluster must be replaced not just adding the tach.
The blanking plate in the cluster can be removed, and replaced by the tach of your choice. Connecting the wiring might take a little extra effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed H View Post
Is this much of a job?
Only you can answer that, because "much" is subjective. Some people are overwhelmed by changing a light bulb or putting fuel in. Others think nothing of swapping an engine.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Steve83 is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:04 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,145
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
The gasser tachs are COMPLETELY different, not usable. And no, you can't just swap in the tach head. The tach, like the other dials, connects into the circuit sheet, and that part of the sheet isn't even there on the non-tach clusters. As already mentioned, the tach is fed by the sensor on the IP cover, which counts IP gear teeth. That's a MUCH higher count per engine revolution than the number of coil sparks per rev of the gassers, which is what drives the gasser tachs.
madpogue is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 10:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Memphis, TN 38133, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Posts: 1,025
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
The tach, like the other dials, connects into the circuit sheet, and that part of the sheet isn't even there on the non-tach clusters.
That doesn't prevent him from connecting wires directly to the new tach. It didn't prevent Ford from running wires directly to the '92-97 PSOM in the cluster; and as my pics show, it didn't prevent me from running new wires all over the film circuit, and to the '92-97 PSOM I put in that '80-86 cluster.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Steve83 is offline  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 11:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,145
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
With enough fabrication, you can do anything. It's up to the OP whether to fabricate or to swap in compatible parts.

Our two '95s have NOTHING directly wired in on the cluster. The PSOM has its own connector, but it's NOT directly wired. That would be, er, not a Good Thing Dr. Venkmann...
madpogue is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Ford Diesels > 6.9L IDI Diesels (Not Power Strokes)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome