Okay everyone, I got my truck running, but it smoked like crazy and made barely any power. When we were working on it, against my wishes, a friend pulled off the IP and gear. I'm thinking he didn't get it back on in the correct position. I understand that the "Y" marks have to line up with the "O" marks. The problem is, I can't see the "O" mark. I got the engine to TDC last night, but I'm not sure how to align these marks as I can't see the face of the cam gear. Do I have to pull off what appears to be a plate that the water pump bolts to? Please help!
He might rapidly become an ex-friend. No, you difinitely don't want to pull the front timing gear cover and open that can of worms if you don't have to. I think you've got no choice but to pull the pump after determining you're on TDC compression stroke (drive gear dowel will be at 4 o'clock position), and not TDC exhaust stroke. After pulling the pump gear housing, scribe a line from the "Y" mark up across the center of the gear to the teeth directly 180 degrees across from the "Y". Then set the gear in position on top of the cam gear and from your top scribed mark move the gear as required so you have an equal number of teeth showing on each side of the pump gear from the mark down to the edge of the timing gear cover. That will assure that your pump gear Y is meshed with the cam gear Y. A guy here has a link with good pics showing what's probably the same method. If not, his method works well also. Can't think of his screen name right now, but others can and I'm sure they can post it.
__________________ Red 86 F250 Supercab XLT: Longbed, 6.9l, 4 speed with DNE-2 Overdrive, 2WD, 10.25 Sterling 4:11, Reclining Highback Captains chairs with arm-rest, Holly Red pump, push-button glowplugs, Racor 645 water separator with fuel heater, K&N Air Filter, Headlight Relay Upgrade, Fog Lights, lots of extra lights, Isspro EV series: Pyro, Oil Pressure, and Voltage in a Autometer 3 pod A-pillar. Bulldog Security System with remote entry. Offset Mirror Upgrade, Remote lube TOB. Road Watch System coming soon. PB PS PW PDL CC AC IW BOOB man - Brotherhood of Oil Burners
1995 Toyota Camry DX: 2.2L, Bolt-action 5-speed, AC, PS, PB, CC.
Triple A-pillar pod: Isspro EV voltage and oil-pressure gauges.
Road-Watch System (Air and road-surface temperature gauge).
Chicken Lights Gone.
Well thanks guys, I followed the directions and it helped a lot. I think I may have dropped it a little off though, I make lots of black smoke, but no power. I don't know if I'm having tranny issues or what. It requires full throttle to go up hills and blows tons of black smoke, but the RPMs never really get up. At one point it was sitting on the hill and I was hitting the gas but I wasn't going anywhere, though the engines RPMs came up a little bit. I don't think the tranny is slipping because the RPMs don't come up, it just feels like no power. Should I have it dynamically timed and see what it does?
Are you sure you had the engine at TDC on the compression stroke? Some have reported on here that they will sometimes crank while 180 degrees off but with no power and lots of smoke.
Did you take the pump loose from the IP cover? If you kept the pump tightly bolted to the cover and you got the gears back in the right place, then your dynamic timing should be where it was when you started.
Why were you working on the truck to begin with?
It is best to read here 1st before you turn a bolt.
__________________ Red 86 F250 Supercab XLT: Longbed, 6.9l, 4 speed with DNE-2 Overdrive, 2WD, 10.25 Sterling 4:11, Reclining Highback Captains chairs with arm-rest, Holly Red pump, push-button glowplugs, Racor 645 water separator with fuel heater, K&N Air Filter, Headlight Relay Upgrade, Fog Lights, lots of extra lights, Isspro EV series: Pyro, Oil Pressure, and Voltage in a Autometer 3 pod A-pillar. Bulldog Security System with remote entry. Offset Mirror Upgrade, Remote lube TOB. Road Watch System coming soon. PB PS PW PDL CC AC IW BOOB man - Brotherhood of Oil Burners
1995 Toyota Camry DX: 2.2L, Bolt-action 5-speed, AC, PS, PB, CC.
Triple A-pillar pod: Isspro EV voltage and oil-pressure gauges.
Road-Watch System (Air and road-surface temperature gauge).
Chicken Lights Gone.
Did you take the pump loose from the IP cover? If you kept the pump tightly bolted to the cover and you got the gears back in the right place, then your dynamic timing should be where it was when you started.
Joe, I know I'm half asleep and my brain is functioning even worse than usual, so you've got me confused if we're talking about the same thing. If his friend pulled the IP gear cover and they reassembled everything with it off a tooth or more, he needed to pull the pump totally off its drive gear again so he can remove the gear cover (housing) then with the cover off do the tooth marking and counting routine, then (making SURE the gear doesn't jump teeth), put the cover back on and bolt it down which locks the gear from being able to jump teeth, then turn the pump to line up with the dowel hole in the gear, then re-install the pump. Correctamundo?
But, like you said, that's with it for sure at TDC firing stroke before tearing it down.
Its just as posted above... These motors will run 180 degrees out so.... The best way to know your at top dead center on the number one cylinder is to pull the passenger side valve cover and watch the valve action as it comes up to tdc. Then follow the instructions for marking and alinging the gears. You really don't need or want to pull aal the front off the motor. Thats more work then is necessary at this piont.
__________________
89 7.3 crewcab w/ Banks Sidewinder Wastegated Turbo. 4 inch straight piped. BTS E4OD trans with 2 extra gallons of ATF in a Mag Hy-Tec pan. Gear Vendors. Rodney Red custom aluminum radiator. Moose Pump with "G' injectors. Motor rebuilt with new after market ported heads. Mahle low comp pistons milled 12 thousands. Balanced to 1/4 to 1/3 gram. Lined bored. Block decked and sleeved on all 8. Shimed oil pump for higher pressure. Intake and exhaust logs ported too. Hypermax in shop waiting to be installed later....
I'm pretty much positive I had it on TDC. I pulled the injector out and shoved my finger down the hole. My buddy bumped the starter, and it blew my finger out, then sucked it down in (intake stroke), so we then manually rotated the engine until the mark on the harmonic balancer lined up with the tdc mark on the timing tab (compression stroke). We then counted the teeth, scribed a line across, and vertical as the article says. Put the pump back together with the line aligned between the IP and the gear. We left the oil fill off and carefully dropped it on with the mark vertical. Not sure if maybe it got a tooth off, it was hard to tell. I haven't played with rotating the pump yet. Believe me, I'm not happy with my buddy for pulling the pump off when I told him not to. This thing would be running right now if it wasn't for him.
Try advancing the timing of the injection pump or retarding it about the thickness of a dime. That equals about 2 degrees. If that doesn't change things then remove the pump, then the cover and reset the gear but don't shortcut the directions. That will get you in trouble lots.
__________________
89 7.3 crewcab w/ Banks Sidewinder Wastegated Turbo. 4 inch straight piped. BTS E4OD trans with 2 extra gallons of ATF in a Mag Hy-Tec pan. Gear Vendors. Rodney Red custom aluminum radiator. Moose Pump with "G' injectors. Motor rebuilt with new after market ported heads. Mahle low comp pistons milled 12 thousands. Balanced to 1/4 to 1/3 gram. Lined bored. Block decked and sleeved on all 8. Shimed oil pump for higher pressure. Intake and exhaust logs ported too. Hypermax in shop waiting to be installed later....
I'm pretty much positive I had it on TDC. I pulled the injector out and shoved my finger down the hole. My buddy bumped the starter, and it blew my finger out, then sucked it down in (intake stroke), so we then manually rotated the engine until the mark on the harmonic balancer lined up with the tdc mark on the timing tab (compression stroke).
If you did exactly word for word what you said above, then you were NOT TDC on #1 firing stroke. When it's blowing your finger out, that's when it's coming up on the compression stroke and about to fire. At that time, the crankshaft pulley TDC timing mark would be approaching the pointer on the timing gear cover and when it got there you should have stopped. Sounds like you went another crankshaft revolution which would have put you 180 degrees off. Using the starter is kind of "iffy" anyway because it rotates the engine so fast. With another guy, you'll get a more accurate feel if you have him rotate the engine with a socket and breaker bar or ratchet on the crank pulley bolt.
On Edit:
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then sucked it down in (intake stroke),
Nope, that would not be an intake stroke, it indicates both valves were closed and that was the downward power stroke just AFTER that cylinder would have fired at TDC where you should have stopped rotation when the marks were lined up perfectly.
Your right, I didn't think it all through the process. The dynamic timing will have to be set when the truck is running well enough.
__________________ Red 86 F250 Supercab XLT: Longbed, 6.9l, 4 speed with DNE-2 Overdrive, 2WD, 10.25 Sterling 4:11, Reclining Highback Captains chairs with arm-rest, Holly Red pump, push-button glowplugs, Racor 645 water separator with fuel heater, K&N Air Filter, Headlight Relay Upgrade, Fog Lights, lots of extra lights, Isspro EV series: Pyro, Oil Pressure, and Voltage in a Autometer 3 pod A-pillar. Bulldog Security System with remote entry. Offset Mirror Upgrade, Remote lube TOB. Road Watch System coming soon. PB PS PW PDL CC AC IW BOOB man - Brotherhood of Oil Burners
1995 Toyota Camry DX: 2.2L, Bolt-action 5-speed, AC, PS, PB, CC.
Triple A-pillar pod: Isspro EV voltage and oil-pressure gauges.
Road-Watch System (Air and road-surface temperature gauge).
Chicken Lights Gone.
[Insert curse words here] I didn't think about it being on the power stroke...guess thats what I get for working on the truck completely hungover. So when I redo it, should I drop the gear on there, then put the cover on, then bolt the pump on? Or should I assemble it and then put the whole assembly on? Thanks!
__________________ Red 86 F250 Supercab XLT: Longbed, 6.9l, 4 speed with DNE-2 Overdrive, 2WD, 10.25 Sterling 4:11, Reclining Highback Captains chairs with arm-rest, Holly Red pump, push-button glowplugs, Racor 645 water separator with fuel heater, K&N Air Filter, Headlight Relay Upgrade, Fog Lights, lots of extra lights, Isspro EV series: Pyro, Oil Pressure, and Voltage in a Autometer 3 pod A-pillar. Bulldog Security System with remote entry. Offset Mirror Upgrade, Remote lube TOB. Road Watch System coming soon. PB PS PW PDL CC AC IW BOOB man - Brotherhood of Oil Burners
1995 Toyota Camry DX: 2.2L, Bolt-action 5-speed, AC, PS, PB, CC.
Triple A-pillar pod: Isspro EV voltage and oil-pressure gauges.
Road-Watch System (Air and road-surface temperature gauge).
Chicken Lights Gone.
Or should I assemble it and then put the whole assembly on? Thanks!
No, no offense, but somehow you're missing the whole concept in regards to getting pump gear in time with the camshaft gear (and sometimes I'm not the best when it comes to putting what's in my fevered brain in writing). There's no way you can do that with the whole assembly. After making sure you're at TDC (FIRING stroke), Remove the IP from the gear and the gear housing and get it (IP) out of the way, remove the gear housing (two 3/8 or 7/16 bolts?), then lift the gear up and out and scribe marks like already posted, set it back in and do the count the teeth deal to assure it's mated exactly Y to Y with the cam gear.
Maybe I should add that when you are at TDC the Y tooth (or Y valley between the teeth) on the camshaft gear will be centered and pointing absolutely straight up in relation to the engine, so by counting equal number of IP gear teeth on each side down to the timing gear housing, the idea is having the IP gear Y absolutely centered and pointing straight down so both Y's will mate together.
THEN set the cover back on over the IP gear and bolt it back down without disturbing the gear in regards to how it's meshed with the cam gear. After the gear cover's on and bolted down, the gear is "trapped" and can't jump any teeth with the cam gear--- there's not enough clearance with the cover on. Then turn and line up the IP shaft so the dowel mates into the gear and bolt the whole mess back together. Hope this helps, like Joe says above, gear, cover, then pump.
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...I get for working on the truck completely hungover.
Ahhhh yes, always an option, it makes time pass more slowly, but so much more painfully!
Thats the way I planned on doing it the first time, but my buddy who pulled it off (different buddy, this one has a brain) for me while I was at work said it would be too hard to get at the bolts holding the IP to the gear cover when it was on the engine, and wanted to do it on the bench. Yeah, hangovers and workign on vehicles suck, but I'm kinda used to it, I crew for a monster truck team, and we like to party hard when on the road. I usually stick to whiskey, but all I had was vodka...and a liter of it on an empty stomach just didn't work well...
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No, you difinitely don't want to pull the front timing gear cover and open that can of worms if you don't have to. I think you've got no choice but to pull the pump after determining you're on TDC compression stroke (drive gear dowel will be at 4 o'clock position), and not TDC exhaust stroke. After pulling the pump gear housing, scribe a line from the "Y" mark up across the center of the gear to the teeth directly 180 degrees across from the "Y". Then set the gear in position on top of the cam gear and from your top scribed mark move the gear as required so you have an equal number of teeth showing on each side of the pump gear from the mark down to the edge of the timing gear cover. That will assure that your pump gear Y is meshed with the cam gear Y. A guy here has a link with good pics showing what's probably the same method. If not, his method works well also. Can't think of his screen name right now, but others can and I'm sure they can post it.
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