14000K fiver and F250, Opinions please

[DezRacer]

Ok, I have an 01 F250 CC LWD 4wd PSD. It has "b" code (F350)rear springs and Firestone airbags. The tires are BFG All terrains rated at 3305 lbs each, size 285.

Currently I tow a 29 foot bumper pull Ragen toyhauler, grossing around 10,000 lbs and 1600 - 1700 on the hitch.

I am looking at an 07 Keystone Raptor 5th wheel toyhauler, model 299. It is a 33 foot toyhauler with one slide in the living room, and a 10 foot separate garage. The listed hitch weight from the mfg is 2400 lbs. The gvwr is 14000. This is good for me, becuase CA says no fiver with over 15000 gvwr without a cdl.

In California, the mfg gvwr is not enforceable. The only thing enforceable is the axle rating, which the vehicle code defines as being the sum of the two tires on the axle, in my case 6610 lbs. I weighed my truck, it is 7300 lbs. I did not weigh the rear axle by itself.

Keystone lists a hitch weight of 2400 lbs. I am going to weigh the unit (at least the hitch) before I buy it. Anyhow 7300 lbs divided by two gives me a rear axle weight of 3650, and I know it is lighter because no PSD is resting on it. So my rear axle should be fine. The dry weight of the rig is 10,000 or so, I looked but I forget the exact spec. I figure 1500 lbs of bikes gear in the garage (good for my hitch weight??), and another 1000 lbs of food, clothes, propane, etc, and 800 lbs of water. So I should be grossing around 13,000 to 13,500 lbs. This is over the 12500 capacity, but I should be under my gcwr, or right at it. This is about the most trailer I feel OK with.

I have done my homework here, and believe an 01 F250 and F350, in my configuration are the same, except for the rear blocks and door sticker. AT LEAST IN MY CASE. Each can tow 12,500 (yes I am over a little) and since only the gawr is enforceable, I don't see a legal issue. Heck, with all the debate on this forum, I don't see convicing a jury of 12 of my peers that an F250 cannot handle the same trailer as an F350, provided they are equipped the same, like mine is.

Any opinions on this, besides it being too heavy and my insurance company is going to disown me if I crash? I am looking for reasonable, real world advice. I am trying to be responsible here and not buying a 40 foot Weekend Warrior Full Throttle fiver with three slides. Getting something more reasonable.

Smokey, any comments? I don't always agree with you, but you do tow a lot, and you seem conservative. I am that way too, despite what I am asking here, and I would appreciate hearing what you have to say.

Thanks.

[GruntTorque]

My 350 SRW does fine with the bigger Raptor if that helps.. Just take it easy. Keep good distance. The only issue I see is possibly going through brakes without having the Torqueshift trans. That 40' FT sure would be nice though!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[DezRacer]

[ QUOTE ]
My 350 SRW does fine with the bigger Raptor if that helps.. Just take it easy. Keep good distance. The only issue I see is possibly going through brakes without having the Torqueshift trans. That 40' FT sure would be nice though!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

This does help, thanks. I am on my third transmission, so far all have been warranty. I accept that one day soon I will be down to see John Woods. Even with my current trailer.

[SmokeyWren]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I have an 01 F250 CC LWD 4wd PSD. It has "b" code (F350)rear springs and Firestone airbags. The tires are BFG All terrains rated at 3305 lbs each, size 285.

[/ QUOTE ]

So skip all the drama and call it an F-350 SRW with 9,900 pounds GVWR and 20,000 pounds GCWR.

[ QUOTE ]

I am looking at an 07 Keystone Raptor 5th wheel toyhauler, model 299. The gvwr is 14000.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wet and loaded hitch weight is going to be around 18 percent of gross trailer weight, and the trailer is going to weigh 14,000 pounds.

So hitch weight is going to be around 2,500 pounds.

You wet and loaded pickup is going to gross about 8,500 pounds with the normal tools, jacks, 5er hitch installed, cooler full of cool, driver, passenger(s), and full tank of fuel. Add 2,500 pounds hitch weight and you're at 11,000 pounds GVW on the 4 pickup tires.

8,500 pound tow vehicle plus 14,000 pound trailer = 22,500 GCW. Way over the 20k GCWR of your tow vehicle.

No matter how you try to slice or dice it, you'll be severely overloaded.

[ QUOTE ]
Smokey, any comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. You need to buy a different tow vehicle. 2005-up F-350 SRW CrewCab 4x4 PSD longbed has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds and a GCWR of 23,000. That's barely enough for that trailer, but at least it's barely enough instead of way too little.

[radeon1314]

im sorry but i just could not resist, 14000k is 14,000,000 pounds. a train would have problems with that load lol.

on topic, the above sounds like great advise/ suggestions



kevin

[poppie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I have an 01 F250 CC LWD 4wd PSD. It has "b" code (F350)rear springs and Firestone airbags. The tires are BFG All terrains rated at 3305 lbs each, size 285.

[/ QUOTE ]

So skip all the drama and call it an F-350 SRW with 9,900 pounds GVWR and 20,000 pounds GCWR.

[ QUOTE ]

I am looking at an 07 Keystone Raptor 5th wheel toyhauler, model 299. The gvwr is 14000.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wet and loaded hitch weight is going to be around 18 percent of gross trailer weight, and the trailer is going to weigh 14,000 pounds.

So hitch weight is going to be around 2,500 pounds.

You wet and loaded pickup is going to gross about 8,500 pounds with the normal tools, jacks, 5er hitch installed, cooler full of cool, driver, passenger(s), and full tank of fuel. Add 2,500 pounds hitch weight and you're at 11,000 pounds GVW on the 4 pickup tires.

8,500 pound tow vehicle plus 14,000 pound trailer = 22,500 GCW. Way over the 20k GCWR of your tow vehicle.

No matter how you try to slice or dice it, you'll be severely overloaded.

[ QUOTE ]
Smokey, any comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. You need to buy a different tow vehicle. 2005-up F-350 SRW CrewCab 4x4 PSD longbed has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds and a GCWR of 23,000. That's barely enough for that trailer, but at least it's barely enough instead of way too little.

[/ QUOTE ] Smokey is dead ON, but get the 450,do you have kid's?,keepem safe,you can never have tooo much truck,but you can have tooo LITTLE and trust me,you see it all as a campground owner,i'ed be realy worried with the single tire's also,yea,people do this all the time ,but it only take's once and you,your kid's or someone else get's hurt/killed,no one can put a price on that,you go around once in life,if this is what you like ,go for it, but get the 450.

[OMCUSNR]

[ QUOTE ]
Smokey is dead ON, but get the 450...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here's the rub. In California, ALL pickup trucks are commercial vehicles, but the F-450 is one that will raise flags for CalTrans & insurers. My advice if you live in CA, is to make sure you NEED a 450, or at least can afford extra lic, tax & ins.

Here's another thing to consider, too. How are your streets posted? Many communities have posted a 6500# weight restriction on the local residential streets (especially in Planned Communities) where you could not legally bring your truck home. Some PUD's / PC's won't let you park a recreational vehicle at home either.

[DezRacer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Smokey is dead ON, but get the 450...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here's the rub. In California, ALL pickup trucks are commercial vehicles, but the F-450 is one that will raise flags for CalTrans & insurers. My advice if you live in CA, is to make sure you NEED a 450, or at least can afford extra lic, tax & ins.

Here's another thing to consider, too. How are your streets posted? Many communities have posted a 6500# weight restriction on the local residential streets (especially in Planned Communities) where you could not legally bring your truck home. Some PUD's / PC's won't let you park a recreational vehicle at home either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, an f450 would be nice but it has its own set of problems.