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Towing and Hauling Towing and hauling with Ford diesel trucks and vans.

       
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Old 06-14-2008, 10:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
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2007 Ford F650 flatbed towing

I am wondering what you guys know about towing a goose neck trailer with this truck. It has the ProLoader badges on it with the air rear suspension. I was wondering what has been pulled safely and what has pushed the limits. I am new here, and I appreciate you guys help. Thanks!!
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Old 06-14-2008, 11:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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F-650s are medium duty trucks (MDT) and trying to answer your concerns with the little info you provided is a tough job.

Your GVWR might be as little as 20,160, but it might be as much as 29,000 pounds. Your GCWR might be as little as 33,000 pounds, but it might be as much as 70,000 pounds. So without a better fix on the weight capacities of your truck, any answer will be a WAG.

There are two different ProLoader frames, in addition to the "normal" F-650 frame.

The 2007 kick-up frame has a GVWR of anywhere between 20,160 and 26,000 pounds, depending on options. The kickup frame is the "low-boy" with height of 32.5" ground to top of frame (unloaded).

The ProLoader straight frame has a GVWR of 20,940 to 29,000, depending... The straight frame adds 3" of height compared to the kickup frame.

A "regular" F-650 - not a ProLoader - is even higher off the ground at almost 40" from the ground to the top of the frame. One big difference is the tires and wheels.

For 2006, Ford said the GCWR (gross combined weight rating) for F-650 ProLoader kickup frame was 33,000 to 60,000 pounds, and for the ProLoader straight frame was 33,000 to 70,000 pounds, depending. Ford doesn't include GCWR for the F-650 and F-750 in their 2007 brochures and Truck Source Book and trailer towing guides. There are numerous variables that affect GCWR, including rear axle ratio and engine power and torque. And there are numerous options for those items. So only the dealership truck managers have enough info to tell you the GCWR of a particular truck. So you can expect a GCWR of at least 33,000 pounds, but maybe a lot more.

An unloaded F-650 with steel flat bed, headache rack, underside tool boxes, etc. will probably weigh around 12,000 pounds empty. So if the GCWR is 33k, then the max trailer weight you should plan on towing is around 21,000 pounds. Of course, with stump-puller rear axle ratio and/or two-speed rear axle, or the high-priced 300-horse Cat engine option, the GCWR might be a lot higher. But if you load the truck down with tools and equipment before you tie into the trailer, the unused weight available for trailer weight will decease accordingly.

If your GVWR is 20,160 and the empty truck weighs 12k, that leaves up to 8,160 for hitch weight. That would be a max gooseneck trailer weight of around 33,000 pounds without exceeding the GVWR of the truck. So GCWR and not GVWR is probably your limiter.

The GCWR is a pretty good indicator of how the truck will handle a trailer. If you don't exceed the GCWR of your truck, you probably won't be a rolling roadblock when trying to climp a mountain pass or long, steep hills. So ask your dealer to give you the GCWR of the truck. Then weigh the truck, subtract the truck weight from the GCWR, and you'll know the max weight of any trailer you should tie onto and still be reasonably safe and secure.

If you want a better answer to your concerns, then you need to provide us with:

1] GVWR of the truck - from the sticker on the door frame

2] GCWR of the truck - per a Ford dealer

3] weight of the wet and loaded truck without the trailer tied on. From a CAT scale.

"Wetand and loaded" means tank(s) full of diesel, all other fluids topped off, driver and any passengers in the cab, normal tools and jacks and coolers and whatever in the truck, and trailer hitch installed - but no trailer tied on. CAT is short for "certified automated truck" scale available at most big truck stops.

Of course, if you have those three numbers, you can probably figure out the answers without anyone's help - since you now know that GCWR is the key.
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Last edited by SmokeyWren : 06-14-2008 at 12:38 PM. Reason: fine tune
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Old 06-14-2008, 03:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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GREAT answer...

Thats why I came here...you guys know your stuff. Since the truck has air brakes on it, should i have air brakes installed on a trailer i will have custom built?? Is electric sufficient?? The trailer loaded will be approx 30,000 lbs, thats trailer and equip. (a high estimate, but better safe than sorry) Again, thanks so much for your insight!
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Air brakes on the trailer for that kind of weight.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMaddox View Post
Since the truck has air brakes on it, should i have air brakes installed on a trailer i will have custom built??
Not necessarily, but it's probably a good idea. Look into "air over hydraulic disk brakes" as well as air brakes for the trailer.

Quote:
Is electric sufficient?? The trailer loaded will be approx 30,000 lbs, thats trailer and equip. (a high estimate, but better safe than sorry)
Ordinary electric (magnetic) drum brakes are probably not robust enough for that much weight. But a compromise would be electric over hydraulic disk brakes. The brakes are the same as air over hydraulic, but the brake controller is electronic instead of compressed air. The brake actuater uses electronic signals from the controller to apply the brakes. Here's one brand of actuator: Brakerite electric over hydraulic unit

The advantage of electric over hydraulic brakes is you can tow the trailer with other trucks that don't have air brakes, simply by moving the brake controller to the other truck. If you put air over hydraulic brakes on the trailer, then any tractor or truck you use to tow the trailer would have to have air brakes too. And there are lots of MTDs that don't have air brakes. Plus if you need to move the unloaded trailer with a pickup instead of an MDT, you can.

The disadvantage of electric over hydraulic brakes on a trailer is not just any brake controller will work. The less-expensive brake controllers designed for magnetic brakes usually won't work for electric over hydraulic brakes. So you have to buy the more expensive controller designed specifically for electric over hydraulic brakes.

If the wet and loaded trailer grosses 30k and the truck grosses 12k to 15k, the truck should have a GCWR of about 45k or more. Since it has air brakes, it probably has other options that will push the GCWR to 45k or more, so you'll probably be okay. But not necessarily so, so you still need to have your Ford dealer give you the GCWR of your truck.

The heaviest-duty easily-available axles for medium-duty trailers are rated 12,000 pounds each, or 24,000 pounds combined GAWR for a trailer with tandam dual wheels. That's a trailer GVWR somewhere around 28k for a trailer with a gooseneck or fifth-wheel hitch. Tires are the common LT235/85R16E that cost around $110 each for the less-expensive brands. Or you could mount the more-expensive or ST235/80R16E. Or if you want the best, then you'd have Michelin XPS tires in size LT235/85R16E that cost over $200 each but are rated as "all position" (including trailer) real-truck tires and will last "forever".

Dexter makes axle hubs rated for 15k per axle, so you may want to specify those if you plan to gross over 28k sometimes.
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/1080235/f/...-06_72_res.pdf .
Your trailer builder will have to know what he's doing to build a trailer with two 15k axles. The tires (and wheels) for a 15k axle would have to be rated at 3,750 pounds each. Those tires are available in load range G by Goodyear and others in size 235/85R16G. Wheels rated for that much weight are a problem, but somebody makes them - maybe Dexter?

So you shouldn't have to move up to a "real truck" trailer with axles rated at 22.5k or more with heavy-duty big-truck tires on 22.5 or 24" wheels.

Last edited by SmokeyWren : 06-15-2008 at 12:10 PM. Reason: fine tune
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