5'er or GooseNeck dolly?? - Diesel Forum

mudguppy · 11-19-2006, 01:26 PM

Oh towing gurus.....

just wondering out of curiosity, why do you not use a dolly for pulling a 5'er or GN trailer, just like semi's that pull tandem trailers????

obviously if you had a truck this would be unnecessary, but what about an X or 2500 'Burban??? i understand it would have to be under the weight limit for the vehicle. but are there other reasons this isn't done - sway, control, or just cause backing is a royal PITA????

just a thought. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

BlueMule · 11-19-2006, 02:34 PM

http://www.digisys.net/bics/welcome.html

mflores · 11-19-2006, 02:42 PM

The reason a semi can do it is first the truck weighs 20,000 pounds and the trailer on its back weighs around 30,000 pounds. While the trailer on a dolly weighs weighs 30,000. So your pulling vehicle has 50,000 pounds and the trailer has 30,000. Where you could do the same thing with an ex but if the ex weighs 7,000 and a fithwheel weighs 15,000 you can see the difference. You cant get enough weight on the towing vehicle.

mudguppy · 11-19-2006, 02:43 PM

oh. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vulnerable.gif[/img]

i figured that if i could think of it someone else has already been doing it for years.

so, since i've never seen one on the road, they aren't popular?? not preferred??

mudguppy · 11-19-2006, 02:47 PM

why would you need weight on the towing vehicle in this example?? if you have the proper distribution (i.e. hitch wieght) on the dolly axle and that axle has brakes, why would you need weight on the towing vehicle (if not for stopping)???

mflores · 11-19-2006, 03:16 PM

It would be like pulling a bumper pull trailer with out any weight on the tow vehicle. It would try to throw around the tow vehicle. You will always need some tounge weight.

BlueMule · 11-19-2006, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why would you need weight on the towing vehicle in this example?? if you have the proper distribution (i.e. hitch wieght) on the dolly axle and that axle has brakes, why would you need weight on the towing vehicle (if not for stopping)???

[/ QUOTE ]

If you look at the pics of the converter you can see that the GN ball or 5th wheel is mounted ahead of the axle. That will provide all the tongue weight you need for the tow vehicle.

BlueMule · 11-19-2006, 04:44 PM

I've seen a couple of them around here:
A flatbed gooseneck trailer full of new trailers with a converter behind it and then another flatbed gooseneck with more new trailers.
And a breadtruck converted into a camper towing the back half of a pickup converted into a trailer. The trailer had a GN hitch in the bed and it towed a trailer full with a sandrail and a bunch of quads and dirt bikes.

JimTJr · 11-19-2006, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why would you need weight on the towing vehicle in this example?? if you have the proper distribution (i.e. hitch wieght) on the dolly axle and that axle has brakes, why would you need weight on the towing vehicle (if not for stopping)???

[/ QUOTE ]

If you look at the pics of the converter you can see that the GN ball or 5th wheel is mounted ahead of the axle. That will provide all the tongue weight you need for the tow vehicle.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think it would be safe to pull something like that with a smaller tow vehicle.
[ QUOTE ]
since i've never seen one on the road, they aren't popular?? not preferred??

[/ QUOTE ] NOT SAFE????

shitface · 11-19-2006, 07:26 PM

I was up in albany a few weeks ago, I saw some old guy pulling a full blown semi trailer with dolly behind a dodge dually!!! I was at a signal light and I saw him down the road coming around a corner and I was like ***!?!?!? He even had a handicap tag hanging from the mirror. Old guy was about 90 YO.
I hope he was only going a few blocks, because since the trailer had air brakes, it would have NO BRAKES behind a pick up.

I would do it IF I was just going around the block with it and would NOT go over 15 MPH!

It's definatly a bad idea.

shitface · 11-19-2006, 07:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why would you need weight on the towing vehicle in this example?? if you have the proper distribution (i.e. hitch wieght) on the dolly axle and that axle has brakes, why would you need weight on the towing vehicle (if not for stopping)???

[/ QUOTE ]

If you look at the pics of the converter you can see that the GN ball or 5th wheel is mounted ahead of the axle. That will provide all the tongue weight you need for the tow vehicle.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would want it to be way further forward than in the pic!

BlueMule · 11-19-2006, 10:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would want it to be way further forward than in the pic!

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY?

How much weight do you think needs to be one the tow vehicle?

How far do you have to slide a 5th wheel on an 18 wheeler to get the weight off the drivers and up on the steer? It doesnt take much. Its the same thing. As long as the pin or ball is forward of the axle it will transfer weight to the drawbar.

It's not like a pull trailer where no tongue weight equates to to much weight behind the axle and the tail wags the dog.

shitface · 11-19-2006, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would want it to be way further forward than in the pic!

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY?

How much weight do you think needs to be one the tow vehicle?

How far do you have to slide a 5th wheel on an 18 wheeler to get the weight off the drivers and up on the steer? It doesnt take much. Its the same thing. As long as the pin or ball is forward of the axle it will transfer weight to the drawbar.

It's not like a pull trailer where no tongue weight equates to to much weight behind the axle and the tail wags the dog. <font color="red">Really? I think the dolly is a trailer in & of it's self, seems to mee it needs plenty of tongue weight? </font>

[/ QUOTE ]
How much tongue weight do most 5th wheels or GNs have? 1500lbs? Seems to me like I'd want about 750 on the truck hitch & 750+ the dolly axles own weight on the dolly tires. I can think of a few places where the trailer would push you right off the road with out having enough weight on the rear tires. I don't know? Just my opinion. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

BlueMule · 11-20-2006, 04:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Really? I think the dolly is a trailer in & of it's self, seems to mee it needs plenty of tongue weight?

[/ QUOTE ] No! It doesn't. Look at the dolly thats used to pull a set of thruway doubles. A tandem axle bogey is completely freestanding and the only weight on the pintle of the lead trailer is the weight of the drawbar itself. Or how about the draw bar on a transfer dump. Again the only weight on the hook is the drawbar weight and you have to pick that up with one hand while you back the truck up to the trailer.

[ QUOTE ]
How much tongue weight do most 5th wheels or GNs have? 1500lbs? Seems to me like I'd want about 750 on the truck hitch & 750+ the dolly axles own weight on the dolly tires.

[/ QUOTE ] Thats 50% of the weight you want to transfer to the tow vehicle. I think thats way to much. I wouldnt want more than 10-15% The whole purpose of they dolly is to convert it the trailer from a "semi" to a full trailer so that all the lead vehicle has to do is provide the means to propel and steer it.

mflores · 11-20-2006, 09:18 AM

I dont know about you, but I dont want 15,000 pounds hook to the bumper with only 750 pounds of tounge weight.