5th Wheel Research/Resources - Diesel Forum

boukaal · 06-29-2007, 11:42 PM

We are looking at purchasing a 5th wheel in the next couple of months. As with many research projects on the web these days, it's hard to filter through the garbage and make sure you are finding useful and valid information.

Any suggestions on:
- manufacturers (who is the Yugo, and who is the Mercedes?)
- reference/research guides (any websites that provide useful guidance?)
- most important considerations to help decide on features

Thanks for the help!

Alem

Believer45 · 06-30-2007, 07:07 AM

I am assuming you are talking about a fifth wheel camper trailer / RV. If so, <font color="red">RV.NET FORUM </font> is the best site I have come across. They have a fifth wheel forum that should have a lot of good information for you just browsing, register and post and you should get a lot of help.

Kind of like TDS.COM for RV folks.

Dave / Believer45

mushing_madness · 06-30-2007, 12:35 PM

You might want to take a look at the RV Consumer Group (www.rv.org). They follow and track RV sales/service/reputation/quality/etc. The cost is $100.00, but when you think about the industry and good versus bad, the $100.00 is a small investment. I purchased a membership back when I bought my RV, and the materials teach you how to look at an RV, areas of trouble, construction techniques, etc, etc, etc. In addition, they rate pretty much every make/model of RV on the road (going from 1993 to present). It was money well spent. It is just another resources to help you separate out the good ones from the junk.

I also second RV.net - a great site. No cost, but you have to understand most people can be very proud of their RV and can add some "fluff" to what they are saying...kind of like on this site! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Good luck on your purchase!

massidc · 06-30-2007, 08:54 PM

Alem: In trying to give you info you paint with a rather large brush.
What size? Length and sleeping?
What budget? Used from nothing to new $100,000.
What usage? Occasional to full time? Need a tow hauler?
Towing with?

Lots of good info on the rv.net but like this forum, sort it out.
Not a fan of rv.org but it helps some folks.
Look look look. Let the wife if you have one look in side. You need to start underneath. Look at how everything is sealed and finished. A lot of bling on the inside is cheap if the job isn't complete beneath.

I have been in and out of rv'ing for a long time and still learn things. Bought our 2000 New Vision Ultra 5th used and on line as I did our current Beaver MH. Both were in excellent condition and extremely well maintained. You can save some serious $$$.

Montana's seem to me a decent quality product.

God luck and look, look, look then you will know what you don't want.

boukaal · 07-01-2007, 02:08 AM

What size?
- From what I've seen, I'm thinking 34'+

Length and sleeping?
- Normal capcity will be 2 adults + 3 kids. Want to be able to sleep 4 adults + 6 kids for short periods (kids are all < 8, so don't need beds or can share beds, etc).

What budget?
- Final budget will be determined once I understand the market better, but it looks like I'll end up in the $50-80K range if I buy new. My preference is to buy something 1-2 yrs old so I don't take the initial depreciation hit. Budget is less important than quality and usefulness. The last thing I want is something that will fall apart or won't meet our wants/needs (which is hard to determine since we are new at this).

What usage?
I expect a couple of 1-2 week vacations each year + at least one long weekend each month.

Need a tow hauler? No

Towing with?
'08 F250 6.0 4x4 Crew Cab short bed

===========

In my ideal world, I'd find something with 2 bedrooms and 2 lavs. Looking purely at the layout, I like the Glendale Titanium 36E41 and haven't found anything else like it. I like the look and interior finish of the Carriage Domani.

Thanks for the help!

Alem

SmokeyWren · 07-01-2007, 10:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Towing with?
'08 F250 6.0 4x4 Crew Cab short bed

[/ QUOTE ]

That's your limiter. Or the 10,000 pounds GVWR is your limiter.

Load the truck with a family plus the 5er hitch installed and you'll probably weigh about 8,500 to 9,000 pounds without the trailer. That doesn't leave much for hitch weight.

1,500 pounds hitch weight is a 5er that grosses about 8,250. And you're not going to find a 34-foot anything 5er that grosses only 8,250 when wet and loaded for the road. My 25-foot 5er with one slide grosses that much.

It sounds like a good 5er for your needs is the smallest Montana they make. Model 2955RL is 33'9" long with a GVWR of 14,000 pounds. Wet and loaded hitch weight is about 2,400 pounds. 8,500 minimum weight for your wet and loaded tow vehicle plus 2,400 pounds for the hitch weight of the wet and loaded Montana would be about 10,900 pounds. Overloaded by 900 pounds. But if you haul a lot of tools and jacks and extra fluids and ice chests and other camping stuff in the bed, you can count on grossing closer to 9,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer. So make that 1,400 pounds overloaded.

You simply didn't buy enough truck for that much trailer.

What to do? If you need to keep that tow vehicle, then you need to find a trailer that will have a lot less hitch weight. So a big 5er is out. A big travel trailer with a Hensley Arrow hitch will tow as good as a 5er. The trailer will be less expensive than a comparable 5er, but you spend more for the hitch, so the total cost is close to break even. (Don't even think about a cheaper hitch. Get the Hensley Arrow.) www.nosway.com

Keystone makes several brands of 5ers and TTs. Montana is the premium-priced 5er from Keystone. Sprinter is the mid-priced trailer line from Keystone, and Sprinter comes is both TTs and 5ers. I've had a Sprinter 5er for 6 years, and it's just fine and dandy. Mine has several options to make it nicer than standard - the big option is fiberglass instead of aluminum siding. The Sprinter model 311BHS (bunkhouse) travel trailer should fill the bill for your needs. It's about 35' long. It has a GVWR of about 11,000 pounds and a wet and loaded hitch weight of about 1,300 pounds.
http://keystone-sprinter.com/?page=d...p;model=311BHS
(Ignore the "dry" hitch weight in the specs. You won't be going anywhere with a "dry" trailer.) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Figure on 11 to 12 percent of the trailer's GVWR as hitch weight. GVWR is dry trailer weight plus carrying capacity.

So you can tow that trailer and stay within the GVWR of your tow vehicle - barely. It has a queen-size bed plus a regular-size bed plus a bunk bed. Plus both the divan and dinette make beds when you have the full crew along with you.

My Sprinter came with barely-adequate tires, wheels, and springs. So I replaced them with heavier-duty parts. I added a trailer hitch to the back end and often tow a 2,500 to 3,000 pound trailer back there. That Sprinter has been coast to coast round trips twice, plus thousands of miles around Texas and nearby states. With the heavier-duty springs and tires, I've had zero trailer problems on the road.

petr · 07-01-2007, 01:03 PM

Alem I am in the same predicament. Too many people and not a large enough tow vehicle. One that I have have found that isn't too bad is this. The Wildcat 32QBSS It has a bunkhouse in the gooseneck and a queen sized bed in the rear of the coach along with a powder room (option) in the rear as well. Gross wieght is 11660# hitch wieght is 1500# By having the bunkhouse up front it cuts down on the hitch wieght by having the queen bed slideout in the rear. You can check them out at www.forestriverinc.com The price isn't out of theordinary and at some camper shows they have them priced at around $30K. There is a place that sells them CHEAP but I don't rememberthe web address. They are located in Ohio and you can pick up the unit or have them deliver it for you. I'll try to find it and post it here for you to look at. As far as the Yugo/ Mercedes thing, that is up to you as far as what you are looking for. Real wood cabinets verses particle board. They all have quality issues, some more than others. My parents have a Mountain Aire 5th wheel and have some quality issues with it. Before that they had a Holiday Rambler 5th wheel and had some quality issues and the hitch broke at the welds. Since the broken hitch they now have an air ride hitch and have not had any issues so far. (Knock on wood!!)

Hope this helps a little,
Pete

petr · 07-01-2007, 01:19 PM

The place I was talking about is www.rvwholesalers.com located in Lakeview, Oh.. But, I found another place at
www.rvdirectwholesalers.com located in Elkhart, In..

massidc · 07-01-2007, 03:41 PM

Glendale and Carriage are good names. Tons of Forest River products out there, but your looking for better and on the right track. Pay attention to Smokey on weights. Since you have time keep checking the web sites like rvregistry.com, rvtrader.com, and rvonline.com
Bought the MH on rvtrader last year.
Keep looking and posting.........

Of course my finger mispelled "toy" hauler. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

boukaal · 07-01-2007, 03:50 PM

Yep, bummed about the weight since I just bought the '08. I wasn't paying attention to GVWR, only GCVWR, thinking 23K is plenty for pulling. Since I've only towed boats before, it never occurred to me that the tongue weight would be that much higher.

I'm not interested in taking any risk on weight, so now the question is what compromise do I make in what I pull.

Too bad the F250s don't still have the same build as the F350s, where I could have swapped out the springs...

Alem

massidc · 07-01-2007, 07:43 PM

Ok then take a look at tt's. I know of a couple that fulltimes and home schools 4 kids in about a 32 ft tt towed w/a 1 ton Ford ext. van. Where you ask? No you didn't but they are in Mexico most of the time. If those roads won't tear up a rig then little else will. I think it's an Americamp tt.

SmokeyWren · 07-01-2007, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's an Americamp tt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ameri-camp makes a mid-range priced TT called Summit Ridge. Their 32' bunkhouse should have a wet and loaded hitch weight of around 1,300 to 1,400 pounds. So call it 1,400 and that leaves 8,600 pounds for the wet and loaded tow vehicle. That's reasonable if you don't haul much heavy junk in the toolbox. Click here and look at model ST31QB.

boukaal · 07-02-2007, 08:15 PM

So I called the dealer today to tell him my dilemma and see how much of a hit I would take it I traded in my nice new '08 F250 on an identical F350 thinking that I'd rather eat a few thousand $$ now and get the trailer I really want rather than buying something that we won't enjoy (read: won't use). His response was interesting, I expected "Come on in and make a deal!" but instead he said "...well, a lot of people just put in air bags to handle the extra tongue weight."

In practice, adding airbags may prevent you from bottoming out your springs, but it doesn't change the GVWR and is not a safe way to overcome any weight limitations, correct? I'm assuming GVWR also takes into account whether you torque the frame, weight on the axles, etc., which wouldn't change with airbags.

?

Thanks,

Alem

Diesel_Aggie · 07-02-2007, 09:12 PM

If you look along I-20 you will see many overloaded F-250s pulling large 5th wheels/horse trailers. Airbags certainly help control the load. You are correct that they will not do anything about GVWR/GCWR. If you were ever in a serious accident and over them this opens the door to a trial lawyer to claim you were negligent, blah-blah-blah, and may subject you to a large judgement. If you have no assets or everything is in a trust that may not be an issue. I'm aware of no law that says you must stay within these ratings. The odds of this happening are very slim. The frame and axles are the same in a 250 and 350 SRW. Spring rates and the GVWR/GCWR are where your differences are. I agree with your philisophy of not compromising on the trailer you want. 95% of the time if I don't buy what I wanted to begin with I regret it.

firesoutmatt · 07-02-2007, 10:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So I called the dealer today to tell him my dilemma and see how much of a hit I would take it I traded in my nice new '08 F250 on an identical F350 thinking that I'd rather eat a few thousand $$ now and get the trailer I really want rather than buying something that we won't enjoy (read: won't use). His response was interesting, I expected "Come on in and make a deal!" but instead he said "...well, a lot of people just put in air bags to handle the extra tongue weight."

In practice, adding airbags may prevent you from bottoming out your springs, but it doesn't change the GVWR and is not a safe way to overcome any weight limitations, correct? I'm assuming GVWR also takes into account whether you torque the frame, weight on the axles, etc., which wouldn't change with airbags.

?

Thanks,

Alem

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/s...eatures/specs/

Look at fifth wheel towing for your truck . This is what FORD says you can tow . The F-250 SRW to a F-350 SRW isn't much differance so the dealer wasn't that far off what he told you. To get the 24k your looking for you would need to look at DRW in a F-450 with 4.3 axle.