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Towing and Hauling Towing and hauling with Ford diesel trucks and vans.

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Old 12-09-2010, 05:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badcarma View Post
I have a 2005 Ford HD 250 6.0 4x4, would like to buy a toy hauler. Is my truck heavy enough to haul one or what do I need to do it to make it ready to haul one?

Badcarma
Depends on you definition of "toy hauler".

Your 2005 F-250 diesel (assuming CrewCab 4x4) has a GVWR of 10,000 pounds. That's probably your limiter. Your wet and loaded truck will probably weigh about 8,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, so that's a max hitch weight of about 2,000 pounds before you exceed the GVWR of your truck.

2,000 pounds hitch weight is a tag trailer with 11 percent hitch weight grossing about 18,000 pounds. That's more than your receiver or GCWR is rated for, but if you replace the receiver with a Reese Titan, then you can tow a tag trailer that grosses up to about 15,000 pounds without being overloaded.

So you can look at tag toy haulers with GVWR of up to about 15,000 pounds.

15,000 trailer gross + 8,000 wet and loaded tow vehicle = 23,000 GCWR.

15,000 trailer will have a hitch weight around 12%, or 1,800 pounds when loaded for bear. 8,000 tow vehicle plus 1,800 hitch weight = 9,800 pounds GVW, well within the 10,000 GVWR.

For example, here's a Keystone Raptor tag trailer with a GVWR of 12,500 pounds that would work nicely behind your F-250:
Keystone Raptor | Floorplans

But a fifth-wheel toy hauler has higher hitch weight, and thus will lower the max gross trailer weight you can tow without being overloaded. Typical 5er in that size will have a hitch weight around 18%. 2,000 pounds max hitch weight divided by 18 percent hitch weight = 11,100 pounds max trailer weight.

So if by "toy hauler" you mean a fifth wheel toy hauler, then the max you should look at is one with a GVWR of 11,000 pounds or less. Yes, I suspect somebody makes them, but they're not the monster toy haulers with GVWR of 18,000 to 20,000 pounds you often see around the play areas. And the smallest Raptor fifth wheel toy hauler has a GVWR more than you can tow with your F-250 without being overloaded.

The only way to legally "beef up" your F-250 to haul more hitch weight or tow more trailer weight is to jack it up and run a bigger truck under it.

You can "make do" to fix some overloaded problems, such as air bags to raise the rear end of the truck so your headlights don't point at the stars (and into oncoming driver's eyes). You can run an aftermarket towing tune, such as a DP-Tuner programmer, to give you a bit more power up the mountain pass. But those patches don't change the fact that you're overloaded and need more truck to tow that load.
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My Sierra Blanca in the sig pic was a great pickup for 11.5 years. I sold it a coupla years ago. I drove a hand-me-down 2003 F-150 SuperCrew 4.6L 2V for a while, but it was unacceptable for towing more than a rowboat. Replacement is a 2012 F-150 EcoBoost SuperCrew Lariat that tows my 5,000-pound TT like a dream.

Last edited by SmokeyWren; 12-10-2010 at 07:54 AM. Reason: clarify
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I second the Keystone Raptor!
We just got a 300MP and love it.
Now if the snow would go away so we can use it again!
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I second the Keystone Raptor! We just got a 300MP and love it.
Yeah, but your 300MP is a 5er with a wet and loaded hitch weight of about 2,450 pounds. That will probably overload badcarma's F-250.
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My Sierra Blanca in the sig pic was a great pickup for 11.5 years. I sold it a coupla years ago. I drove a hand-me-down 2003 F-150 SuperCrew 4.6L 2V for a while, but it was unacceptable for towing more than a rowboat. Replacement is a 2012 F-150 EcoBoost SuperCrew Lariat that tows my 5,000-pound TT like a dream.
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I have a 2011 28ft 5th wheel toyhauler by Forest River (Attitude) it's Dry weight is like 8,000lbs and it's max is 11,900lbs. Super fun lots of room seperate front end walk around bedroom w/shower which was the selling point I couldn't find this in any other model close to this size. Some had front end bedrooms but they were not walk around beds one side was always against the wall. I absolutely love my toyhauler one of the best investments I've made! So much fun!
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by midwestman View Post
Look at the Kelderman system. Much better than just bags on the axle. Kelderman Air Ride
This has my vote!
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Thanks guys for the help, I was wanting a bigger toyhauler like the Titan 40 SURV. If I beaf up the back rearend will that do? How would I do that if it could be done? This fifth wheel is setup for winter hunting, bottom is heated so you can carry water and black water.

http://www.sunnybrookrv.com/Series/T...fications.aspx

Last edited by badcarma; 12-16-2010 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:52 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I was wanting a bigger toyhauler like the Titan 40 SURV.
GVWR = 18,000 pounds.

Wet and loaded hitch weight = about 3,250 pounds.

So you need a tow vehicle with at least 26,000 pounds GCWR and 11,250 GVWR. None of the SRW Ford diesels have that much grunt. Even most F-350 dually diesels have a GCWR of only 23,500. As a minimum you need a 2008-'10 F-350 DRW with the Tow Boss pkg which has 26,000 GCWR and a heavy duty rear axle with 4.30 gears. Or a new 2011 F-350 DRW with 29,000 GCWR

Quote:
If I beaf up the back rearend will that do?
Titan - Specifications
Did you not read my earlier post? If you want an 18,000 pound fifth wheel, then you need a newer and heavier duty truck to tow it with. You can make do to make your F-250 suitable for a slightly bigger trailer than the specs allow, but that Titan 40 is not a slightly bigger trailer - it's a much bigger and heavier trailer than any F-250 was designed to tow.

Quote:
How would I do that if it could be done?
If you insist on being cheap and dangerous, then as a minimum, you must replace the third member with one from an F-350 DRW. Find a donor truck and rob it of everything connected to the rear axle = differential, wheels, hubs, springs, shocks, brakes, ect. That will allow you to handle the hitch weight without overloading the rear end, but you'll still be way down on power and frame strength to tow that much trailer.

Last edited by SmokeyWren; 12-16-2010 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Angry

Thanks for the input, yes I am cheap as I am retired and I didn't want 2 payments. My truck has a tow package and i thought that maybe it would work, guess not so i will have to skip it!

Thanks
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I am also cheap and retired and don't want any payments. I have been debt-free since I retired in 1993, and plan to stay that way. If I want a new vehicle, I save up until I can pay cash for it. Right now I don't have a pickup, but I need one, so I'm saving until I have about $30,000 to pay cash for a new small pickup with a V6 and the tow pkg that can handle a 7,000 pound cargo trailer without being overloaded.

If you're thinking of buying a new 18k toy hauler, then that's going to set you back some serious coin. Have you instead considered going for a used toy hauler plus trading up for a proper tow vehicle?
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I have not found one that is winter ready. My truck has only got 23,000 miles on it I bought it new and the new ones cost so much now! I was going to buy a trailer back than but things come up and now well.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Airbags makes for a smoother ride?

I have a F350 SRW 4x4 LB that pulls our new full-time home with a 20k Reese hitch--a 34' 5th wheel. The truck has no problem pulling it. Fact is you hardly even know it's back until you see it in the rear view mirrors. My only complaint is the chucking. I had to read online to learn the word chucking. No matter what you call it, we dang near get whiplash whenever we hit a dip, bump, or drive on a road which isn't very, very smooth while driving above about 35 mph. It is very annoying and I know I have to buy some sort of add on to remedy the problem.
I've been told that airbags will stop it from happening at half the cost of a Mor/Ryde or Trail Air pin box adapter.
Anyone out there ever faced this decision, or know of someone who has?
Thanx for any opinions y'all might offer.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:12 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I love my airbags. I ran the airlifts to a single valvestem at the back of the flatbed. I carry a gas compressor so the on board unit was not really necessary, but it would be nice. Gross weight was probably in excess of 30k here. Truck pulls fine, rear end and transmission dont heat up. Electric over hydraulic brakes on tandem duals stops the truck great. V-10 tranny cooler, isspro guages, AFE intake, and 330,000 miles shows these trucks are tough. Best truck Ive ever owned...or even heard of.

If your trailer squats your truck, get the airbags. Play with the pressures until you figure out what works. Loaded this heavy, I will run 80psi.

Good luck

Jay
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:03 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Pulling the 13,500lb TH in my sig. I have the Firestones, on board compressor and tank plumbed to the bags and PacBrake, a dual needle guage to moniter tank pressure, and bag pressure, and a dump/fill switch for the bags.

I have found 70psi bag pressure works best when hooked up to the TH.
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2009 Forest River XLR 3712SA ToyHauler
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