boat towing - 1st time long trip

[wally392]

hello, 1st post, and perhaps you all can share some advice.

will be towing a recently purchased 30' boat (~6800 lbs) on a target tailer - tandem axle (weight??? 2500lbs???) with my 2002 7.3 x. traveling mid-illinois to lake of ozarks and back.

quesions that i have:
1. gross vehicle weight - from reading, i believe i can pull 12,500 lbs. - what is the actual tow limit w/ a full load for this vehicle?

2. what devices may improve my truck's performance? - i have not added anything from date of purchase (2002) except a primus brake controller. (will be towing a 16' to 20' cargo trailer in near future as well.)

thanks for any insight.

[osubob]

You need a weight distributing hitch to tow that load. The X is only rated to tow 5000lbs / 500lb tongue weight. With a WD hitch, it is increased to 11,000lbs / 1100lb tongue weight. I tow a 29' PowerQuest with a WD hitch and it pulls great. I figure I'm at about 10,000lbs fully loaded. It’s a very capable truck if you load it properly.

Bob

[pandersen]

You will not even notice it is back there. I tow 30" sailboat which weighs in at 8000# on the trailer and sometimes forget it is there. I've towed across the rockies with a 11000# load with no problems. My biggest tow was 12300#/ 35' sailboat. this had a weight distributing hitch and that was very helpful. I wi\ould say that up to 9000# you don't need a WD hitch but if you have one, it will make the ride nicer.I would suggest that you consider a chip program of some sort so that you will get some more torque and HP. The main reason I got one was that going down RT.95 every winter the truck would down shift just to go over an overpass. That was driving me crazy. Now with the chip it never down shifts until it is really needed. In my truck if I keep the speed to a high of 67 I get the best fuel economy. 9 to 11 MPG towing.
Have fun

[osubob]

SAILBOATTUG,

Your F350 may be capable to tow your boat without a WD hitch. However, the receiver on the X is not that robust. Without a WD hitch, the max towable weight is 5000 lbs with 500 lbs of tongue weight. If I would tow my 10,000lb boat without a WD hitch and get into an accidient, there is a good chance my insurance would not cover it because I would be considered overloaded. I find it cheap insurance. I for sure could not replace my X and boat with out of pocket money if I ended up totaling both. Also, a WD hitch makes it so much less stressful towing. Its just smooth. There's no bouncing or swaying.

Bob

[SoB]

Does that trailer have surge brakes?

[boatpuller]

An Excursion will do a fine job pulling your boat. Those that say you need WD are technically right, and all of us boaters who pull 10,000 pound boat/trailer combos without one are technically wrong. You won't find many big boat trailers with a WD hitch, though I do understand it makes for a smoother ride with less porpossing(sp?). As for the insurance argument, when is an automobile insurance claim made that doesn't involve someone doing something they "shouldn't", like failing to keep adiquate distance from the car in front, crossing the line, being distracted by a cell phone, etc. Make your own decision on this after reviewing your policy if you choose.

Don't start on the engine mods yet. There is plenty of power there for now. You need to do a few suspension improvements first. Add good aftermarket shocks, as the stock ones are poor. Bilsteins offer a nice German feel, and Rancho's offer an American feel plus the 9000's offer adjustability. The rear springs on the Excursion are fairly soft, and can allow spring wrap, a condition where the axle moves in a manner it was not intended to. Not a scarry condition, but leads to a "wiggle" or poor tracking. Radius rods are the best fix for this. If your boat trailer drops the back of your Excursion, you might need air bags to help the springs. Depends on how much the tongue weighs, and how often you trailer. Make sure your tires are well inflated, especially the drive tires, and your spare too. It's easy to remove air on the side of the road if the spare is going on the front; harder to add it if it's going on the rear. Same goes for the trailer tires. Make sure you have a jack that can lift a trailer axle, and a lug wrench to fit the trailer lugs. Check your trailer bearings before the trip and if you have not repacked them since you last winterized, you should. Each time you stop, walk around the trailer, touching the sidewalls of the tires and the hubs. The tires should be warm, but not hot, and they should all be similar temp. If hot, they probably need more PSI. The hubs with brakes will be hotter than the idler hubs. As long as the hubs are not hot enough to burn you, you're probably okay. You might want to confirm the trailer lug nuts are still tight at your first stop an hour down the road. They seem to loosen up more than truck lugs. You do need the trailer brakes to be well adjusted (if drum). Surge accuators for the brakes are just fine. If fact, I like the simplisity of the design. While one of my trailers has electric-hydraulic brakes, there's always concern about the electric part. The more complex something is, the more there is to fail. And, do strap the boat to the trailer at all three of the lifting rings. Don't ask the winch strap to do it all at the bow, add a second strap going down to the trailer frame, and go ahead and strap the stern too. There are rough spots between St.L and LOTO that can bounce a 7000 pound boat on the trailer. I trust your boat is well balanced on the trailer, and you have enough tongue weight on the ball. How does it pull around Central Il? If okay, you might not need any improvments to the truck, but please do consider the shocks. Your OEM's are 4 years old now, and they wern't that good to start with.

Il highways are in good repair, and flat. Around StL you'll start finding hills, rough roads, and increased traffic. I'm assuming you'll come through StL, and if so, Don't take I-70 through the middle of town. Take 270 around and either grab I70 on the west side, or take Hwy 40 west to I-70 in Weintzville. Hwy 40 is pretty nice now with only a few stoplights, and they are working on removing them! If you are coming through Hannibal, that is also a fairly nice drive on good two lane highways. But watch your speed between hanibal and Mexico as the local PA will not plead speeding tickets into non-moving tickets. He is very firm about that. If you come across at Lousiania(sp?), watch out for Curryville as it is a bad speed trap. Do you need advice on ramps or activities at LOTO?

And finally, what kind of boat do you have?

[JimTJr]

Dont take the two lanes thru Mexico, Hannibal ect.. IMHO,,, Go 70W to 270 W then get on 370W right after Mcdonnald Blvd. 370 ends at 70W again in St. Peters, (My town! LOL) Take 70w all the way out thru to Highway 54 at Kingdom City. Take 54S thru Jefferson City and several smaller towns,, (Do watch your speed there,, sometimes very heavily patrolled for DUI and such from the lake...) That highway will take you all the way to Osage Beach,,,if that is your destination.
When you pass exit 220 on I-70 you will be about 1 mile from my house! (If you have any trouble,, I would try to help out!)

[MustangMike]

Take the entire setup down to a public scale fully loaded and get it weighed. Many boat owners find out their rigs are actually heavier then anticipated. As far as WD, you will see some discussions concerning WD in the post titled "Trailer Setup". I just had to do some research myself for a boat trailer.

1. WD does not increase the load capability of your hitch. If your hitch with WD is rated for 11000/1100 with WD, then it can hold 11000/1100 without. WD transfers the weight across all axles. The limit of 5000/500 is based on the rest of your suspension. Without WD, the front end may be light.

2. Many trailer boats are not using WD. Most have surge brakes. I am one of them. I am not recommending not using a WD hitch, just stating a fact from what I have seen. I have yet to see a boat pull up at the launch ramp with a WD hitch. Check out your tongue weight and/or measure the amount your front end is raised when you hook up. My F250's front end is raised a 1/2 inch and I have 500lbs on the tongue. Air bags will help the rear end sag, but will do nothing about keeping your front tires planted. A WD hitch should make the ride more comfortable and safer, but if you have a light tongue weight.... may actually result in making the trailer less stable at speeds.

3. I am using a V-10 and pulling 7340lbs. Not to start a gas/diesel war, but I would bet that 7.3 has plenty to do the job. If you only want to make mods to pull this boat, I would save your money.

[wally392]

thanks for all the advice. i had to drive from spfld il to 20 miles north of detroit to pick-up boat. for luck i had straps to tie front end of boat down - though i did not put them on until about 30 miles heading back - almost a big mistake.

heading back (I-94 to I-80 to I-57 to I-72 to spfld) i stayed 55 to at most 65. near 65 i could feel a little sway coming on. also the trailer had electric brakes on all hubs, but was not wired for hook-up, that is fixed now. that trip took almost 11 hrs....in a truck w/ the fiancee....i think she climbed into every seat at some time during that trip.....and pushed all the buttons twice.....and listen to every cd i had (the first 20 seconds of each).....anyway we are still gettng married and having the bach/bachelorette thing @ the lake of the ozarks. back to the truck and boat......

the trailer did not drop the back end of truck very much - maybe 1 or 2 inches....but i think when loaded the boat should have come forward a bit more. next time its out i will weigh at scales and share the weight distribution.


question:
1. with a WD hitch, is there a limit or a problem when taking on hills or turning over inclines. looking at all the set ups, i keep wondering what the biggest degree angle between the trailer and the truck can be when traveling?

have any of you taken I-72 west to 54 south to avoid st louis altogether?

and i love driving the excursion....probably the best vehicle purchase by us.

[wally392]

pulls fine in in central il. i always turn the overdrive off. this target trailer has moble-home style trailer wheels. w/ 100psi. right now i am running w/ 85psi. tires were warm as you suggested on return trip form michigan. there was not a spare tire w/. am researching to buy.

the boat i pull is a 30' wellcraft scarab w/ twin 454's

[MustangMike]

The sway could be related to tongue weight. You may need some more. This may solve the sway without a WD. The WD Hitch will load all 4 tires on the Excursion rather then the rear two tires. Find out how much tongue weight you have, push the boat up to add more, then test drive. Make sure not to exceed the ball hitch/drawbar capacities. Travel Trailers suggest 10-15% of the total on the tongue, however, for boat trailers, most manufactures will tell you 7-15%. Many boat trailers are doing fine in the 5-7% range due to the wheels located at the back of the trailer. Just need to try different setups.

My F250 drops 1 inch with 500lbs on tongue weight. My rig tops out at 7340 pounds. With 450-500 lbs, have not had a problem with sway. I don't know the answer to your clearance question, but, when installing a WD you want the trailer to be level (not on an angle). Therefore, you set the drop or rise such that the trailer is level on the ball.

[boatpuller]

Is that the Welcraft Panther, the clasic from the 80's? Those have such a serious look to them.

Yes, some do take 72 over to hanibal and then down 19 to 54, taking the bypass around Mexico. And while some is two lane, it is good road and fairly flat until you get past Kingdom City. In fact, for you in Springfield it might even be faster as I70 can bog down with traffic.

Those axles and brakes on your trailer bother me, but any systemic fixes are expensive compared to replacing parts as they wear out. Total electric brakes don't like to get splashed in water, so expect to have to replace/repair them every 2-3 years. Not trying to scare you, but if you budget the time and money now, you're less likely put it off when time to do the repairs. (that's fresh water; even shorter times if you are in salt water.) Working brakes on a boat trailer are a hundred times more important than WD bars!!!!!!!

Assuming the axles and spindals are true to the trailer, and so is the hitch, your discription of sway above 65 sounds like too little tongue weight. You don't have to move a boat forward much on a trailer to make a difference in tongue weight. (side note: you want your bunks to support the hull all the way to the transom. Move or lengthen the bunks if need be to do this. Won't help your trailering, but will help your boat). I'm not endorsing this, but "a friend" with a PSD excursion pulls a similar boat and trailer with around 1200 lbs of tongue weight, and says the rig tracks and steers well, and has for thousands and thousands of miles. It does squat the rear springs, making air bags a good idea. A wd hitch might work in this case too. But even in emergancy manuvers, this combonation without wd bars did great. He thinks wd bars might help smooth out undallating(sp?) roads, but the excursion pulls the boat fine. This same guy pulled a ulitity trailer once with almost 2000 lbs of tongue wieght without a wd hitch, and that he did not like. Caused the steering to get floaty over 65mph.

Finally, go ahead and use overdrive. That's what it's there for. The only reasons not to are for down-hill speed management like in the mountains, or if your transmission is hunting between 3 and 4 due to your speed. Hunting doesn't mean an honest downshift on a hill, it means the transmission can not decide which gear to use.

[osubob]

I'll be putting my X to the test in August. I'm pulling my 29' PowerQuest (total load weighing 10,000lbs) to Lake George, NY from Grand Rapids, MI. In addition to the boat I'll be taking 5 adults (including myself) and a dog, plus all our gear needed for a weeks vacation. This is the main reason why I decided to go with a WD hitch. Anything I can do to help ease the stress on the vehicle will be a big help. Plus, I don't want to take any chances with all those people towing in an overloaded condition. Its cheap insurance if you ask me.

[boatpuller]

osubob: you should have a great time. That's a very pretty part of the country. With all you'll be pulling and carrying, your combined weight will be over 20,000 lbs. While that is more than Ford rated the vehicle for, your excursion should do a great job with it. Hope your trip is smooth and everything you want it to be.

Just thought of something: Do you also have air bags on your Excursion? If you do, would you be willing to do an experiment? Would you try a section of the trip without the bars, whatever section of road you would be comfortable doing that on, and let us know how much smoother the ride is with the WD bars? I know it should be smoother, but I'm looking for real world observations.

[Sparkydm]

Listen to Mustang about getting your setup scaled! My boat/trailer
is 2K heavier than the highest verbal estimate I got. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]