California Law, GVWR Penalty

[SupaChop]

I’m trying to make heads or tails of the laws regarding load for my state’s laws. I hear so much back and forth regarding GVWR, GAWR, GCWR etc. What I’m really trying to do is figure what I can safely and legally haul in California. I’m no lawyer, but I’ll bet two lawyers could debate the legalese of the specific laws, not to mention a state trooper’s interpretation of these laws.

It appears California gives a 1,000-pound allowance before fines are levied. How I take this is one can exceed their GVWR by up to 1,000-pounds so long as their GAWR isn’t exceeded….. Someone with a law background help me out on this one....

We could get the debate going on again regarding the individual manufacturer’s derivation of GVWR and why it's “the bible” but I think that point is senseless. There are those on this site that inherently follow rules that are based on subjective reasoning. They have been able to simplify life by not questioning numbers derived via committee. I was always one who took apart my toys to find out how they worked…….


From California’s vehicle code:
Declared Gross Vehicle Weight Limit Violations: Penalties

42030.1. (a) Every person convicted of a violation of any declared gross vehicle weight limitation provision of this code, shall be punished by a fine that equals the amounts specified in the following table:

[Fines imposed for a conviction of a violation of operating a vehicle in excess of it's declared gross vehicle weight.]*

Pounds in Excess of the Declared Gross Vehicle Weight

Fine

1,001-1,500

$ 250

1,501-2,000

300

2,001-2,500

350

2,501-3,000

400

3,001-3,500

450

3,501-4,000

500

4,001-4,500

550

4,501-5,000

600

5,001-6,000

700

6,001-7,000

800

7,001-8,000

900

8,001-10,000

1,000

10,001 and over

2,000

(b) No part of the penalties prescribed by this section shall be suspended for a conviction of any of the following:
(1) Section 40001 for requiring operation of a vehicle upon a highway in violation of any provision referred to in this section.
(2) Any provision referred to in this section when a second or subsequent conviction of a violation thereof occurs within three years immediately preceding the violation charged.
*The bracketed information has been added editorially to meet accessibility requirements and is not part of statute.
Added Sec. 58, Ch. 861, Stats. 2000. Effective September 29, 2000. Operative December 31, 2001.

[klhansen]

Here's my 2c.

The operative words in that code section are "Every person convicted", IMO. Just because there's a law on the books doesn't mean that the CHP is going to spend time enforcing it. Then there's the issue that a ticket isn't a "conviction". They can't tell how much you weigh by looking, except in extreme cases.

I haven't been to CA in a while, and I'm sure that others have more experience with this sort of thing and will "weigh" in.

[BWilliams]

The key word here is "Declared Gross Vehicle Weight Limit". This pertains to commercial use cab & Chassis vehicles. Upon registration a couple years ago Ca changed the way they calculate fees on commercial units. It's now calculated by GVW or GCW.

Example:

I sell an F550 flat bed to a customer. Upon doing the paperwork there is a form that the customer must sign, REG 4008, that he marks which rating he will be at (can not exceed the vehicles GCW or GCW rating). The trucks GVW is 19,500 lbs and the GCW is 30k. If he marks the form at 10,001-15,000 and gets pulled over an weighs in at 18,000 lbs he is going to get fined $350 for the 1st violation. The weigh you select on the form is printed on the registration also. Hope that clears it up for you.

[SpikeEng]

Originally Posted by klhansen

...I haven't been to CA in a while

See post #5 in this thread.

[DesertDave]

Here's my take on it,with my own example. My truck had a Ford-spec GVWR of 11400 lbs. The Ford spec for the RAWR is 7000 lbs, with the tires at 75 PSI. The axle manufacturer's spec for the rear axle is 9750 lbs. The tires at 80 psi hold 3640 each, or 7290. The front axle Ford rating (I think) is 5200 lbs, with the tires at 65 psi. I haven't researched what the axle manufacturer says the weigh rating of the front axle is.

I scaled my truck, Fr 4920 lbs, Rr 7020 lbs. I had rear tires at 80 psi, fronts at 65 psi. Even though I am over Fords rating for the rear by 20 lbs, and the GVWR by 540 lbs, I am less than the tire ratings, and the manufacturers axle ratings. I think I am 'safe'.

When I switch the tires to ones rated for 4080 at 80 psi, I think I will be 'safe' up to 8160 on the rear, and at least 5200 on the front. Theoretically, if I could load it in a manner to distribute the weight that way, I would be almost 2000 lbs over the GVWR. I could be subject to a weight penalty, based on the OP's table, but the state form uses a 'range' of weights for registering - in my case 10,001 - 15,000. Would I get penalized for weight at 13360, when It is within the range for which I am registered? I don't know. I would think it is unlikely.

If I were over the range, would it be more likely? It certainly eliminates the grey area.

I think that 'safety' is far more important than 'legal'. And I think 'legal' in California has a lot more to do with California regulations, and registrations, and fees paid, than it does with anything Ford Motor Company prints onto a door label.

This may not answer your question, but I am also concerning with safety, and with avoiding any legal problems, and this is how my thought process went. FYI, I scaled the truck behind the fuel station, loaded for a multi-day camping trip, camper, full tanks, firewood, etc. etc. etc. It was within 500 lbs of what I had guesstimated it would weigh.

[Smiley1]

BWilliams has it right. The key word is declared weight.

As a motor vehicle in CA you can load a Geo Metro up to 20,000 lbs per axle provided that the tires are rated for that weight (Isn't that an interesting visual). Let me qualify that with this: There is a vehicle code section for unsafe load. This is determined by the articulated opinion of the officer. This is concerning GVWR and not to be confused with GCWR.

If you are for hire, you have to have a MCP with DMV and a declared weight rating.

[johnfjensen]

The other shoe is the insurance companies. We are hearing about more and more cases where one is in an accident, especially rollovers towing toy haulers, where the insurance company determines the vehicle was over weighted and then deny any payments to the vehicle's repair or replacement.

[hitecdan]

Originally Posted by BWilliams

The key word here is "Declared Gross Vehicle Weight Limit". This pertains to commercial use cab & Chassis vehicles. Upon registration a couple years ago Ca changed the way they calculate fees on commercial units. It's now calculated by GVW or GCW.

Originally Posted by BWilliams

Example:

I sell an F550 flat bed to a customer. Upon doing the paperwork there is a form that the customer must sign, REG 4008, that he marks which rating he will be at (can not exceed the vehicles GCW or GCW rating). The trucks GVW is 19,500 lbs and the GCW is 30k. If he marks the form at 10,001-15,000 and gets pulled over an weighs in at 18,000 lbs he is going to get fined $350 for the 1st violation. The weigh you select on the form is printed on the registration also. Hope that clears it up for you.

OK, so this pertains to commercial use cab & Chassis vehicles. What about the average F-250 or 350 that is a complete vehicle, i.e. has the cab and bed. When I bought my F-350 I was issued commercial plates and of course all the extra yearly registration fees that go with it. I also never saw a REG 4008 form or had to declare a rating I'll be using the truck at. I understood that the weights were already set by the factory (which can differ from state to state). I was told by my dealer that commercial plate are issued because of the GVWR of the truck, but I have seen F-250s and 350s with non-commercial and vanity plates. When getting insurance, my insurance agent has two different rates, commercial and personal use rates. From what I've seen, their is a huge gray area between what is commercial and what is not depending on the application (complete vs non-compleated vehicles).

I would be more worried about what your insurance company thinks overloaded is.

[Smiley1]

If your GVWR is 10,000 lbs or less, you do not need a CA# or have a need to declare your weight unless you are for hire.

[quadrider400]

I hate to say it but I just hook up the trailer and haul... i guess my out would be the dealer that sold me a trailer that was overrated for the truck they knew i was going to be pulling...

[SteveIn29]

Originally Posted by quadrider400

I hate to say it but I just hook up the trailer and haul... i guess my out would be the dealer that sold me a trailer that was overrated for the truck they knew i was going to be pulling...

It wouldn't be much of an out. If asked (which they almost surely wouldn't be) the dealer would simply state that you told them you had the appropriate truck to pull the trailer they sold you. Basically you as the owner are responsible for any laws that get broke by your use of your own property.

If this comment was in regards to an RV trailer (TT or 5er) then almost every dealer has a paper the buyer signs, stating that it is the buyers responsibility to use the appropriate tow vehicle, that is some where in that large stack of papers you went through during the sales transaction. The dealer has just covered his butt and put the onus on the buyer (no matter what the salesman might have said to get you to buy the trailer)

[warrent]

The truck that Bobby Williams, was refering to was an F-550 w/flatbed. I was in a meeting recently with two CHP Commercial Officers. They stated that when the bed was removed from any size pickup, and replaced with flat bed, utility body, etc. the vehicle must go through the scales and have a CA
number. "Running" the scales is a very expensive ticket in Calif.

[u2slow]

Originally Posted by hitecdan

OK, so this pertains to commercial use cab & Chassis vehicles. What about the average F-250 or 350 that is a complete vehicle, i.e. has the cab and bed.

I would check if there even is a distinction between the two.

Up here any pickup, flatbed, or cargo van is "commercial". The red-tape builds up depending on the GVW and usage that you license for.

[DezRacer]

Originally Posted by johnfjensen

The other shoe is the insurance companies. We are hearing about more and more cases where one is in an accident, especially rollovers towing toy haulers, where the insurance company determines the vehicle was over weighted and then deny any payments to the vehicle's repair or replacement.

I am going to call BS on this one. I would like to see one example of this happening in the real world. This simply DOES NOT HAPPEN. The virtual world, because you "heard" about it on the internet does not count.

If you get drunk and crash the insurance company will cover you. What is the difference between towing over the MFG GVWR and drunk driving? Oh yeah, drunk driving is against the law, but exceeding the GVWR is not.

[u2slow]

Originally Posted by DezRacer

I am going to call BS on this one. I would like to see one example of this happening in the real world. This simply DOES NOT HAPPEN. The virtual world, because you "heard" about it on the internet does not count.

The insurance agents definitely give me the spiel about void insurance for yadda yadda yadda.... like when I increased my licensed GVW beyond the mfr's tag; and using my business vehicle for personal use.

Insurance adjusters also ask some very particular questions about usage and loading when reporting a claim. I don't know how far they can take it - I've never given them them the opportunity.