Commercial Towing Question in PA and NJ - Diesel Forum

4drdually · 08-20-2006, 09:51 AM

I have some questions pertaining to the particular states but some that just pertain to out of state driving. I live on the border of PA and NJ right at I95, so I work in each state equally as much. I'm registered commercial because I'm a contractor and my company owns the truck. The plates just say truck on them with no indication of commercial unless you read my reg. My dump trailer weighs in at max 10k and my tool trailer mak 7k. My tow rigs are below. What SHOULD I really be doing to tow these units. I got pulled over in the small town i live in where they are as close to a miltary state as you can get. (Town is a like 2 square miles and they have 4 cops, 2 cars, an SUV, and an unmarked, and NO Crime!) They said because I'm over 17k and commercial I need a fire extinguisher, triangles, and a medical card. If I cross state lines and am over 10k, I need all that stuff. Not to hard to comply, the med card is a PITA. Anyone know what I REALLY need? Also, do I need to stop at DOT weigh stations like I read somewhere else? My friend has an ISuzu NPR box truck and they laugh at him when he pulls in. Is it only 26k and over? I'm trying to comply, but I'm kinda lacking the knowledge to do so. I also can't find the pertinant info because PA DmV sucks. And if the 10k things is true for driving out of state, my new truck is 13k. Now what?? I'm confused??

Dan

By the way, my truck has hardly any markings of being commercial.

truckdrivindave · 08-20-2006, 01:25 PM

That is a pretty intresting question/ But I do know this/ if you are a company your company name should be on your rig for tax purpose/ also if you are crossing states you should be paying taxes for both states/ even though youre under 26,000 lbs. You need to get the FMCSA hand book for more DOT regulations/ I dont know who you should contact for your taxes/ maybe your tax man, he should know what you should do working in both states........

4drdually · 08-20-2006, 04:01 PM

Yeah, I pay corporate taxes in both states and I run a small magnetic sign on the tailgat when I feel like it. I only stick it on if I'm doing something purely business related. I'm an LLC organization and my truck is setup as part time businees, part time personal. No one has ever questioned me about not having markings. I don't like advertising my company as I work on a refferal only basis. My taxes are based on my sales in each state, so I pay whatever I do each year. Get whacked 3 times by the tax man! I've read through the handbook and find it difficult to find the areas which apply to small trucks and not big rigs. Pennsylvania references different things then Jersey. I live right and work right next to state police headquarters in Jersey and have never been bothered. Its the local yokels in PA that are the problem. Not even the DOT as I'm located right next to the weigh station also. Never pulled in, never been pulled over. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

Dan

**SteveRacer** · 08-20-2006, 09:39 PM

Unfortunately, I did a careful read of both the FMCSR and the PENNDOT Title 75 rules, and I'm pretty sure what you have been told is correct:

http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/vehicle_code/index.shtml

I'm assuming you live in Yardley and own a non-commercial PA driving license "Class C".

The warning triangles are a PA requirement as well as a Federal requirement.
The fire extinguisher is not a PA requirement, but is a Federal requirement.
The medical card is not a PA requirement, but is a Federal requirement.
Another Federal requirement is to display proper markings, i.e. Company Name etc.
You do NOT need a CDL until you exceed 26K combination weight or weight rating.

The above applies when you are using the vehicle(s) for interstate (like NJ) business purposes. When using for personal purposes, you wouldn't need any of these things, except perhaps the fire extinguisher and triangles when in NJ. (I didn't check NJ DOT rules.) But it really doesn't matter, because you're not going to unload these things just to drive "private use".

If you meet all PA requirements and FMCSR requirements, NJ has reciprocity and would honor your ability to drive in PA as authorization to drive in NJ -- as long as you meet all FMCSR requirements.

Sorry, but it doesn't matter how stealthy you are, or how little your vehicle is marked or appears commercial. It might help you "get away" with operating commerce interstate, but if you got caught you would not be in compliance. You could probably operate legally without the fire extinguisher and medical card if you stayed in PA, since that would not be interstate commerce and strictly under PENNDOT discretion.

Keep in mind that the FMCSR requirements are a minimum requirement for operating interstate. So even if NJ didn't require a medical card, you'd still need one when you have a PA license and operate outside of PA. Other states are allowed to enforce state regulations locally that are MORE restrictive, but never LESS. Once you engage in commerce interstate it falls under the purview of the FMCSR.

As far as stopping at weigh stations, there are so many rules and variations it's almost impossible to say. I always stop. In New York, they have DOT "Inspection" stops, which cover EVERYTHING including weight. The signs say "ALL TRUCKS MUST STOP" and I do. And I always ask if I needed to stop, and they always say yes. Perhaps I could avoid scales, but I'm certain I cannot avoid a NY DOT Inspection stop. And I am talking about a private-use "not-for-hire" combination rig well under 26K. I have both triangles and fire extinguisher, because these are VEHICLE requirements (at least in NY). I do not have a medical card, because I do not operate commercially, although I operate interstate. The rig is registered commercial, because NY doesn't allow passenger plates on heavy pickups unless you have a camper shell with RV plates.

I know what you mean about the laughing when small rigs stop -- but my theory is I'd much rather have them laugh at me for stopping, then have them totally NOT laughing if I didn't stop. In fact, there hasn't been any laughing at all the last three times I stopped. I tow my race car in a large cargo/toyhauler, and I was questioned whether there was any prize money for winning races or whether I had sponsorship. There isn't, and I don't (I wish!) But the point is that NY DOT told me they are cracking down on race cars and horses "private use" rigs, because they consider prize money and/or sponsorship from rodeos and races to be a kind of commerical enterprise.

Military state indeed. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

-steve

enginebill · 08-20-2006, 09:48 PM

I was told that if you are over 17,000 pounds in PA you have to stop at the weigh stations commercial or not.

4drdually · 08-20-2006, 10:21 PM

awesome post. I try to comply with any and all rules. But no one complies to these rules around here, so you never know who to ask. Guess I need to get the medical card filled out. I have a fire extinguisher, just need some triangles. The best is trailer inspection in PA. You need to be inspected over 3500 pounds, but none of the inspection stations know where to go to get it done. Even the trailer places are kinda clueless. You go to one person, they send you to another, then another. You give up because its so stupid. You got it right though, I live in Yardley. They are beyond military, most certainly commies!

Thanks, Dan

awayne · 08-21-2006, 12:38 PM

Well, if some states you will see a sigh that says all trucks over 4 ton GVW must stop. In most cases that would include all crewcab dullies because they should be over 8,000lbs with nothing behind it.

Now, if you are an RV then no you do not need to stop, but commercial yes you should stop to be safe.

bcf · 08-26-2006, 11:51 AM

I do not know about the weigh station, however I'm operating around Doylestown, and have found some on my questions answered. If you cross into Jersey to do business, you need a Federal DOt number. You can have surge brakes in PA, but not Jersey. Company name, phone and city to go to Jersey, and I think you also need an IFTA fuel tax sticker. Pre and post drive inspection sheets were recommended to me, but I forget at what weight they are required, or if it was intrastate commerce. Of course CDL for trailer over 10K, although the guy who I talked to said there is a way of apportioning tags to get away with 12K.

This info came from a guy at the tags place, his best friend is someone high up the ladder at the Norristown State Patrol. Didn't have to pause to remember his chit. I bought the Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Management book from him, has all the answers for everything from tiedown laws to CDl shift times, truck and trailer lighting regs; basically told me to read through it and know everything pertaining to the DOT and my business, because everytime I got stopped the officer gave me different rules and cost me money.

He gave me a pamphlet for Motor Carrier Safety Partners, out of Line Lexington, that run seminars about all the latest regs, run by a retired state trooper, I believe, the number is 215-799-1998.

4drdually · 08-26-2006, 10:53 PM

I'm right down the road from you in the yardley/newtown area. The crossing into Jersey thing is actually easier than what you make it. Police in Jersey don't really care about anything. As long as your acting in a safe manner, your fine. They have self inspection over there and aren't half as bad as the bucks county cops. I know a lot of Police officers in Jersey, and when they heard about me getting pulled over for a medical card, they laughed. New Jersey doesn't enforce that law. By the letter of the law, you are right as to what you need to be an interstate carrier. But these laws aren't enforced, nor should be. Fuel tax sticker for a contractor's truck?? give me a break. I'm just trying to sort through all the BS to figure out which laws i should be paying attention too. The new thing around here that all the landscapers are getting busted for.... Tieing down your mowers and weed wackers..... inside enclosed trailers! Bunch of commies if you ask me.

Dan

bcf · 08-28-2006, 06:01 PM

Well I heard from a friend of a friend of a bird about a big accident caused by a gas can not beeing tied down... I know what you mean about commies. last year I was pulled over 3 times, was told what was wrong each time, corrected them, then was told an even stricter thing must be done. THat's why I got that book, and just plan on taking the extra 15 munites a day making sure everything is in compliance, rather that risk another ticket. Although I never bothered looking into a fule tax sticker, heck I already pay too much of it at the pump. It sucks that as a guy trying to follow all the rules and legaliteis of running a small business. I constantly am worried and hassled that soemthing isn't stapped down, or loose, whatever, but I see these Sanford and Son guys running around with chit falling off their truck and they never get stopped!

Matt