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Towing and Hauling Towing and hauling with Ford diesel trucks and vans.

       
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Old 05-16-2006, 07:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Compressed Air or N2

Here's a good one! I have total access to nitrogen (N2 not LN2) and if would fill my tires on my truck with it would they stay cooler while towing aposed to using compressed air that has all sorts of crap in it. In other word would a inert gas create less heat by moving around inside a tire?
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Old 05-16-2006, 07:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

Racers seem to think so. But on the road if you don't bring your own you are out of luck.

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Old 05-16-2006, 10:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

The whole idea of using N2 is it eliminates any impurities in the gas filling the tire. ie: water which expands and contracts based on temp. If you use N2 then you should have less fluctuation of the tire pressure from the water in the air heating up and expanding the tire.
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Old 05-17-2006, 06:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

<font color="green">This is the biggest joke to come along in the tire business in years.

The advantages for highway driving/towing are so insignificant that it is hardly worth the trouble.

There are many old air tanks in shops that are painted green and labeled N2, that have nothing in the world but plain old air, and are being passed off as nitrogen.

Who has the ability to tell the difference?? </font>
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

I would use Nitrogen since you have it. There are nitrogen generators sold specifically for use in tire shops.

It is supposed to leak slower and maintain a more consistant pressure.
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Old 05-18-2006, 02:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

This is one of the many, many areas where missinformation outweighs facts about 100:1.

First of all, air IS (80%) nitrogen, so there is no appreciable difference in how fast it will leak out.

Secondly, it is not the difference in being able to generate heat, it is the mere fact that bottled compressed gas is usually very dry (as mentioned above). The lower water vapour content (humidity) means less pressure change with the inevitable temperature rise in a working tire. Racers use it because the difference between the "right" pressure and the one that puts you in second place may only be 1 or 2 psi (or at least is may be rumoured to be). It may be more good feeling than good sense, but racing is also full of questionable practices. Having all the "gear" in the paddock seems to be a large part of the experience. There is also the "psych out the cometition" factor to consider.

Finally, the only real advantage I can imagine for an over-the-road vehicle with nitrogen (which is NOT inert) is that if the tire is filled with that instead of air, there is no oxygen available to deteriorate the tire by oxidative breakdown of the rubber. However, I have never seen that kind of failure INSIDE, since usually the UV promotes very rapid oxidation where the sun hits the tire. Ozone (03 - also only on the outside) is much worse than 02 + UV and it the thing to worry about.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

Well then.........
Maybe I will try helium, I have that also.

Pat, do you know the effect that would have with 37's.

This is for re-search only on a spare set of tires.
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Old 05-18-2006, 01:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2



Finally, the only real advantage I can imagine for an over-the-road vehicle with nitrogen (which is NOT inert)

[/ QUOTE ]



Hey pat ...how you figure n2 is not inert ??? What make a gas inert or not inert ???
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Old 05-18-2006, 02:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

If an element can combine with another element it is not inert. N2 can combine with O2 to make various oxides of nitrogen, for example.
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Old 05-18-2006, 07:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

I did some looking about this....

The real benefits I found are that:

Nitrogen leaks through the tires slower than oxygen and,

since the nitrogen has no moisture content, pressures are more stable during temperature fluctuations.

The benefits are better for people that do not maintain their tire pressures, i.e. nearly everybody. I can't tell you how many tires I've changed tires that were ruined simply because they were run low on air.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

As I said, ALL bottled gasses have very low moisture content (none have "no" moisture. They usually have a dew point around -60C. Yes, the oxygen in air might leak faster than the nitrogen, but there is only 20% oxygen in air, so it isn't that big a deal.

As for helium, it is CONSIDERABLY smaller molecule than O2 or N2 adn will leak much more easily. However, if you put sufficiently large tires on, and fill them with Helium, the truck will float longer.

The definition of inert would be not only able to combine with oxygen, but any other element to form a compound. One of the key giveaways is to note that the common isotope of oxygen or nitrogen are di-atomic gasses.
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Old 05-20-2006, 08:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

Here is some food for thought. If about 20% of air is O2 and 80% is N2 and the O2 leaks faster, if you kept adding air to your tires, you would be increasing the concentration of N2 while the O2 keeps leaking out. Eventualy, you would almost have only N2 in your tires anyways.
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Old 05-20-2006, 08:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

You have just discovered the lowest cost, low-purity N2 separator around. Now, all you need to do is get a few thousand guys coming by your place ever month or so and topping up their tires, then "change their air" when the tires wear out. Of course, you could be rich with all the replacement tire business, never mind the N2 (if you could only find a market.....wait for it.....SELL IT TO TIRE SHOPS!).
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Old 05-20-2006, 11:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

The only reason for nitrogen is that is moisture free, and will slow the corrosion between the beam and rim, something that has plagued aluminum rims, over the years.
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Old 05-20-2006, 11:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Compressed Air or N2

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason for nitrogen is that is moisture free, and will slow the corrosion between the beam and rim, something that has plagued aluminum rims, over the years.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="green">I agree with the corrosion issues with aluminum rims; but, the nitrogen will be no more moisture free than the equipment used to process and administer it.

Plain old air can be dried to zero moisture content. </font>
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