dump trailer - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Go Back   Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Ford Diesels > Towing and Hauling

Towing and Hauling Towing and hauling with Ford diesel trucks and vans.

TheDieselstop.com is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-31-2006, 02:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Ulm MN
Posts: 66
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
dump trailer

The hydraulic pump runs off a battery on the trailer which is supposed to be charging by the 12v constant pin. The battery doesn't recharge enough between dumps. I know that the constant 12v has power, and the battery is good. I am wondering if a larger wire like 8AWG would solve the problem. I think the wire being used now is 14AWG. Or should i dump the trailer battery, and run leeds off the pickups battery?
__________________
85' F250XL Reg. Cab. 6.9L, C-6, 105K, Stock, 3.55 gears
Planning on new headgaskets, rear main, rust repair and complete paint job, and a hypermax turbo this winter. Want to start in Dec. (Lots of Q's)

1990 Ford Festiva
2001 F-150XLT SC 63K 5.4 Triton
1997 F-350XL 7.3 Dually 43K
wendit is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-31-2006, 04:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cape Ann, MA
Posts: 1,269
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

when you dump the trailer, I'd leave your truck running. That way it will run off the battery and the truck. Of course if it draws too much for the 14 gauge wire, you'll have to replace a fuse and probably up the wire size. you could also get a small solar cell for trickle charging the battery while the trailer is sitting. I think they are getting more affordable.
__________________
1996 F250 4x4 ext. cab, long bed 5 spd. 3.55ls, Tymar Intake, Tymar 4" downpipe and 4" exhaust. AIC, B&W turnoverball, EBPV brake, tranny temp gauge, boost gauge, and egt gauge. 2.5" axle drop bracket, F350 springs up front, and F350 rear axle blocks. 260k miles. RETIRED.

NEW (to me) 2005 F350 FX4 Crewcab shortbed, SRW, Lariat, auto, V10. 5600 lbs front end.
NickKent is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2006, 05:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Ulm MN
Posts: 66
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

The system has a ciruit breaker to open the circuit to the pickup when the pump engages. When the draw of the pump stops, the breaker resets itself. If I would leave the circuit closed I think that I would need a 1AWG or similar to handle the current draw of the pump. If I did that, I could just as well get rid of the trailer battery. Any other suggestions? I would rather keep the battery on the trailer if I ever needed to use a different vehicle. It there a way to incorporate the voltage regular with the trailer battery or wouldn't that be necessary?
__________________
85' F250XL Reg. Cab. 6.9L, C-6, 105K, Stock, 3.55 gears
Planning on new headgaskets, rear main, rust repair and complete paint job, and a hypermax turbo this winter. Want to start in Dec. (Lots of Q's)

1990 Ford Festiva
2001 F-150XLT SC 63K 5.4 Triton
1997 F-350XL 7.3 Dually 43K
wendit is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2006, 05:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cape Ann, MA
Posts: 1,269
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

Is it a deep cycle battery? If it isn't I would switch to one. Maybe you should try running two batteries. I don't know how the truck hot wire is set up, but I'd think it would have some sort of resistor so it only did trickle charge the battery. Maybe you should just hard wire something in that will allow you to use your truck batteries as boosters.
__________________
1996 F250 4x4 ext. cab, long bed 5 spd. 3.55ls, Tymar Intake, Tymar 4" downpipe and 4" exhaust. AIC, B&W turnoverball, EBPV brake, tranny temp gauge, boost gauge, and egt gauge. 2.5" axle drop bracket, F350 springs up front, and F350 rear axle blocks. 260k miles. RETIRED.

NEW (to me) 2005 F350 FX4 Crewcab shortbed, SRW, Lariat, auto, V10. 5600 lbs front end.
NickKent is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2006, 06:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
AlH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: SC USA
Posts: 1,929
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

I don't really think a true deep cycle battery in this application is right. It actually is more like starting use...high amp draw for short periods, rather than relatively low draw for long periods.

How often you dumping Wendit? Must be very frequently to discharge the battery..never had that happen with mine but most I've dumped is about 5 times in a day.

Think about it this way- if you dump drawing say 100 amps for 30 seconds then charging back up at say 10 amps it will take about 300-400 seconds, you gotta put back more than you took out due to charging losses, still only 5-7 minutes.... 10 amps is a reasonable recharge rate from the truck if all is in order....so something isn't right here...I bet you aren't getting the recharge rate you need.
__________________
96 F350 CrewCab BTS-E4OD 4.10 4x4 / Banks Git-Kit / 99-Intercooler / 99 Tahoe 25TB ToyHauler / 00 FourWheelCamper Pop-up
AlH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2006, 06:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 358
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

Wendit (GRAIN BELT MAN!), KEEP the trailer battery and double them up with a good high amp hour deep cycle and add a trickle charger. Trickle charge at night.

Hopefully you have room in the box for a second. I have room for a third in mine.

You’re going to want a deep cycle due to the heavy discharge. You can run a 'normal' cranking battery but you will be replacing them more often. And you will not be real happy with the performance of a normal crank battery if you are dumping back to back with little or no charge time between. Especially if you have a power up/power down system and dump heavy.

I replaced the factory battery with two good quality high capacity batteries. My truck doesn’t charge the batteries very well either. The factory wiring will not support an adequate charge current for the amount of dumping I do. So heavier wire will reduce the IR loses and may help. I didn't persue this end as I had better experience with a dual battery.

I wired a trickle charger into my trailer also. I just plug it in at night and it will dump all day with the little bit added from the truck.

I also wired in a set of flood lights that run off the batteries, now with daylight savings it really helps when the sun goes down so early. I use them more than I ever thought.

PM me if you need more. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]
__________________
1992 E350 7.3 IDI, 3.73 club van - 160K
1998 Quad cab 2500 12V Cummins, 4x4,auto, all stock with 145K miles
2000 F350,DRW converted to SRW with Vision 19.5" wheels,4x4,6 speed,Lariat,Napa 6642 airfilter,Edge Juice w/Attitude,Cody Cushon gooseneck, 175K, Prodigy, 3.73 gears
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 200K
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 230K
2003 TDI Jetta Maual 90K
1999 Polaris Diesel Quad
2004 Kubota BX 1500 599cc diesel
(yah I like the old mechanical diesels)
Westro is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2006, 08:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alvaton, Jawja
Posts: 448
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

i have to agree. deep cycle batterys like to be used continuously for long periods of time like with a trolling motor or work lights and then be recharged fully.

i think a LARGE truck battery (soemthing strong with 1000CA and 130-150 reserve) would be the ticket. they are made for heavy abuse and can take the beating of quick discharge and then immediatley start recharging. i would even consider gettin an Odyssey (optimas suck) as they are gel cell and compact

-cutts-
__________________
My Picasa Web Album

96 F350 PSD 4x4 CC/LB 5spd XLT Ranch Hands F/R, 6637 mod, 4.5" straight pipe, tymar 3-4" DP, Dominator 66 turbo, Banks IC system, DIY Stage-I's, TW 4-pos chip, 37" SuperSwampers, autometer gauges,RAM laptop mount w/AI OBD diagnostics, fold down g/n hitch, OBA system with York and dual trumpet air horns, bronco 33gal fuel tank

72 bronco 302/435/twinsticked D20/D60/10.25 welded F/R, hydro assist, 39.5" stretched WB to 105", 1410 yokes/shafts, Staz custom double beadlocks, CroMo shafts front shafts with 35 spline outers and sexy lady drive slugs, GLO diamond tread diff covers, custom cage, mesh floor, custom diamond aluminum dash overlay, wristed radius arm, homemade shackle ladder bar
Fishmanndotcom is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2006, 09:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Ulm MN
Posts: 66
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

I did a little research about batteries. A starting battery is only recomended to be discharged 5% or the battery life will be reduced alot. Westro, I understand how the second battery and trickle charge would solve the problem, but I would rather not have to charge it at night and have the extra battery maintance. I have a new group 31 deep cycle battery in the trailer with 950CA and 245 reserve. I sometime dump in 30 minute intervals when I am hauling gravel in town. It seems that even if I drive 30 miles before I dump, it still won't completely recharge the battery. AIH, are you sure those recharge figures are correct? Just say the battery is 3/4 charged after 1 dump, and I would put a battery charge on it, It would take longer then 5-7 minutes at 10 amps to recharge the battery. I do agree with you that I am not getting the recharge rate that I need. I found this online but I am not inthused about the price but I think it would solve my problem. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templa...&hasJS=true I might try a large 12v constant wire to the battery before I buy this thing. My other question, the alternator is 70 Amp and is 2 months old. Will that be enough to keep the pickup (diesel) and the trailer battery charged?
<font color="blue"> DRINK SCHELLS AND GRAIN BELT </font>
__________________
85' F250XL Reg. Cab. 6.9L, C-6, 105K, Stock, 3.55 gears
Planning on new headgaskets, rear main, rust repair and complete paint job, and a hypermax turbo this winter. Want to start in Dec. (Lots of Q's)

1990 Ford Festiva
2001 F-150XLT SC 63K 5.4 Triton
1997 F-350XL 7.3 Dually 43K
wendit is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2006, 11:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 358
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

My first suggestion is to simply parallel up a second battery and trickle charge at night. The nice thing about this is that you now have a second ‘backup’ if one battery gets weak/dies. Nothing worse than being off some place loaded heavy and not able to ‘lift’ it.

You could run a dedicated heavy gauge wire from the truck’s batteries (fused of course) out to the trailer. You would have to investigate how that connection could be made as the surge current needed to lift is quite high and I'm sure that an RV connection is NOT rated for several hundred amps over minutes. That is the reason why you still NEED the battery at the trailer. To take this surge current.

Your not going to be that farther ahead as far as messing with ‘beefing up’ the feed from your truck and removing the trailer battery or putting in a second battery.

Anyway have you checked the condition of the battery that is in your current trailer. It maybe good, but is it a large enough amp-hour? Did you load test it? Your battery may take a charge but if is not of high enough capacity it will not get the job done. So in theory you can either increase the size of a single battery or put a second in! I know the stock one that came with my trailer was a very low amp-hour rated one, cheap of course and didn't get the job done for me.

Even fully charged the stock battery wouldn't lift the load in the picture in my signiture.

Your alternator will do the job, If it is getting 'weak' it's output current will decrease and cause a slower charge 'trailer battery recovery time' to increase. But you will see an issue with the truck starting if this was the case and you were not getting good alternator output.

Look at it this way, I think one time I was messing with the 12V power on my father's Cummins and I measured a 2V drop (to 12.5V) at the RV connector underload (2A). The reason why you will NEVER acheive a 100% charge at your trailer battery, you are only bulk charging. The reason why I nightly trickle charge.

The Cabelas charge connector will do NOTHING for you. You need more of a DC-DC converter at the trailer battery to setup up or 'charge pump' your battery to obtain a full 100% charge.

The easiest way is to add more stored potentual (amp-hours) at the trailer. So when you do get that hour or 2 drive it stores more energy for you.


Grainbelt man, overandout
__________________
1992 E350 7.3 IDI, 3.73 club van - 160K
1998 Quad cab 2500 12V Cummins, 4x4,auto, all stock with 145K miles
2000 F350,DRW converted to SRW with Vision 19.5" wheels,4x4,6 speed,Lariat,Napa 6642 airfilter,Edge Juice w/Attitude,Cody Cushon gooseneck, 175K, Prodigy, 3.73 gears
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 200K
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 230K
2003 TDI Jetta Maual 90K
1999 Polaris Diesel Quad
2004 Kubota BX 1500 599cc diesel
(yah I like the old mechanical diesels)
Westro is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-02-2006, 06:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
AlH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: SC USA
Posts: 1,929
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

Wendit- you said your alternator is only a 70 amp and on a DIESEL?!
If that is your 97 F350 then that is the WRONG alternator...the PSDs have a much higher output than that.

A true deep cycle battery is NOT designed for the kind of load you probably have when dumping. As for a starting battery being discharged only 5% for best operation, a "typical" automotive sized battery is around 100 amp hours, so using 100 amps for 30 seconds falls under the 5% spec, *providing* it is charged back up before the next cycle.

As for the math on the recharge- yes it is correct. You take out amp-hours and you gotta put back the same plus some for charging losses. If you draw 100 amps for 30 seconds charging an equal amount back would be 10 amps for ten times as long or 300 seconds, not counting charging losses. Or if you draw 100 amps for 30 seconds and can only put back 2 amps it will take 50 times as long or 1500 seconds, still only 25 minutes plus some for the losses.

You need to find someone with a clamp on DC ammeter and do some testing. I'm betting your charge rate is very low due to poor connections or very small wire. I've had a fair amount of trouble with poor connections in 7way RV plugs over the years, hate them.

As for the 100 amp draw I'm only guessing, I do have a DC clamp-on and I'll do some measuring on mine when I next use it loaded. Judging from the wire size used from the battery to the hydraulic pump motor I bet it is a least 100 amps, and again most normal sized true deep cycle batteries aren't designed to deliver that much current. Looking at some specs for 12v hrdraulic units such as used in dump trailers they draw anywhere from 100 amps to as much as 400 amps under load [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]
AlH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-02-2006, 09:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Ulm MN
Posts: 66
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

I did some tseting last night, I found that the charging system is putting out about 13.8-14.2volts. I then tested the constant wire when it is unhooked from the battery and I had the same voltage. I hooked it back up and the voltage dropped to 12.8 That tells me that the wire is too small for the amps drawn which gives me the voltage drop. I have a few problems calculating the amp needs becasue 1 dont know the amp draw of the pump 2 don't know the amp draw on the pickup, 3 My battery doesn't have an amp/hour rating. I have found a wire calculator which leads me to beleive with a 8 gauge wire drawing 30 Amps I would have minimal voltage drop. I would then put a 30 AMP breaker in the line to open the circuit when I dump. I found this page very useful http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm A few pages up from the bottom has the amp/gauage/voltage calculator
__________________
85' F250XL Reg. Cab. 6.9L, C-6, 105K, Stock, 3.55 gears
Planning on new headgaskets, rear main, rust repair and complete paint job, and a hypermax turbo this winter. Want to start in Dec. (Lots of Q's)

1990 Ford Festiva
2001 F-150XLT SC 63K 5.4 Triton
1997 F-350XL 7.3 Dually 43K
wendit is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-02-2006, 09:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: so cal
Posts: 98
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: dump trailer

i use a 14' dump daily for 3 years now, with no problems on a 12 guage wire, make sure you don't have any wires grounding out on the trailer, happened to me once, didn't find right away
__________________
95 cc 350 4x4 banks intercooler, guages,banks downpipe open exhaust,35's, roll-a-long pkg
77 E100 429 swap shorty with balls
80 stang 2.3 turbo holley, balanced & blueprinted
98 F800 CC cummins roll off bins
97 2wd supercab SB stock for now....
powerstroked95 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Ford Diesels > Towing and Hauling

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



» Wheel & Tire Center

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.