I just bought a trailer that has electric over hydraulic brakes the brakes when applied have a little hesitation in them then work real well.But the problem is when you let off of the brake it seems that the brakes are still grabbing for about 30 to 45 seconds. Have never had this type of brakes before wondering if this is normall or what I should be checking to fix this problem. The brake system is made by ausco.
Thanks Jim [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
Electric over hydraulic brakes are great - much better than ordinary electric brakes - but they usually require a special brake controller to make them work right.
Contact AUSCO at http://www.auscoproducts.com/ and see which brake controllers will work with their electric over hydraulic brakes.
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My Sierra Blanca is a '99.5 PSD CrewCab hot-rod Towing Machine! BTS tranny; TurboRamAir intake and 4" stainless turbo-back exhaust; DP-Tuner tunes flashed into an Edge Evolution tuner; ISSPRO EV gauges and TTM; AIC; SP-Diesel exhaust brake and torque converter controller. I special-ordered it new and plan to drive it until it quits.
The Ford Integrated Brake Controller is not compatible with many brands of electric over hydraulic brakes. Some manufacturers of hydraulic pumps have worked around this problem. As Smokey suggested contact your manufacturer and see what they say.
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2002 F350 Lariat CC 4x4 Auto 4.10 DRW, DP-Tuner F5 live tuned stock, quiet, 40dd, 40, 60, 80 tow, 80e and 120r, B&W GN, BrakeSmart, 'pooned tank, tank and pre-pump mods, 2µ Dahl 100 filter, regulated return, BTS dual HPOP, AC singles with EDM 34 lpm nozzles, AIS, H2e, Spearco 6.0 IC, Hypermax 3.5" dp--> MBRP 4" 304SS exhaust, BTS tranny, 203º T-stat, Chevron ELC, coolant filter, Oilguard bypass with Schaeffer 9000, WranglerNW 200 amp alternator & Optima group 31 batteries, Nippon-Denso starter, SPA gauges, SteveRacer mods, Hella 80/100W 9007s, Hella Micro DE foglights, 1000FF driving lights, 220W backup lights, Stancor contactor, Michelin XPS Traction tires, X-Springs, Bilstein shox, custom bumpers but otherwise stock. Nov 30 '99 build engine with 16 K miles, Fluidampr, Comp Cam 910 springs, Melling LPOP and ARP headstuds. Alien-Patrol Customer Service Sucks!
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Smokey so you are saying that the stock integrated brake controller that comes with the truck is probably the problem.
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Yes. As haul-n noted, the Ford optional Tow Command brake controller is not compatible with many brands of electric over hydraulic trailer brakes, and especially those with disk brakes. The Ford ordering guide even includes the blurb: "...verfied to be compatible w/electric actuated drum brakes only".
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My Sierra Blanca is a '99.5 PSD CrewCab hot-rod Towing Machine! BTS tranny; TurboRamAir intake and 4" stainless turbo-back exhaust; DP-Tuner tunes flashed into an Edge Evolution tuner; ISSPRO EV gauges and TTM; AIC; SP-Diesel exhaust brake and torque converter controller. I special-ordered it new and plan to drive it until it quits.
sorry to be so ignorant, but when you say "electric over hydrolic" , what exactly does that mean? I thought you either had electric OR hydrolic breaks? (hydrolic being inertia style breaks) is there some type of hybred?
i only ask cause im thinking of changing the inertia breaks on my boat trailer to electric, and i though this may be an easier option??? Thanks
It is a hydraulic automotive style brake system that an electric motor/servo is used to apply the pressure to the master cylinder.
The brake controller then controls the application speed and pressure of the application. the brakes down on the wheels though are just plain old hydraulic disc units, the electric portions can be placed up out of the way or out of the water in the case of a boat trailer.
The hydraulic units used look like everything from an automotive master cylinder with a motor attached to large cylindical units that are hard to tell what they are.
The Dexter unit below is a hydraulic pump type unit in that it does not push against a master cylinder with a pressure rod.
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sorry to be so ignorant, but when you say "electric over hydrolic" , what exactly does that mean?
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Visualize surge brakes on a boat trailer. Those are hydraulic brakes, usually drum brakes, but they could be disk brakes too.
The surge mechanism on the hitch applies the brakes. When you slow down the tow vehicle, the trailer keeps coming towards the back of the tow vehicle. But then the surge mechanism contacts and mashes on the master cylinder. The harder the trailer pushes on the tow vehicle, the more the master cylinder applies brake pressure.
Now visualize moving that surge mechanism and master cylinder somewhere else - maybe further back on the hitch frame so it's not part of the tow vehicle/trailer connection. Replace the surge mechanism with an electric ram that will push on the master cylinder when you apply the trailer brakes. You now have electric over hydraulic brakes = electric ram pushing on the hydraulic master cylinder.
And yeah, you need a brake controller than knows when and how hard to mash on the master cylinder. It's similar to the brake controllers used with trailers that have pure electric-actuated brakes.
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sorry to be so ignorant, but when you say "electric over hydrolic" , what exactly does that mean?
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Visualize surge brakes on a boat trailer. Those are hydraulic brakes, usually drum brakes, but they could be disk brakes too.
The surge mechanism on the hitch applies the brakes. When you slow down the tow vehicle, the trailer keeps coming towards the back of the tow vehicle. But then the surge mechanism contacts and mashes on the master cylinder. The harder the trailer pushes on the tow vehicle, the more the master cylinder applies brake pressure.
Now visualize moving that surge mechanism and master cylinder somewhere else - maybe further back on the hitch frame so it's not part of the tow vehicle/trailer connection. Replace the surge mechanism with an electric ram that will push on the master cylinder when you apply the trailer brakes. You now have electric over hydraulic brakes = electric ram pushing on the hydraulic master cylinder.
And yeah, you need a brake controller than knows when and how hard to mash on the master cylinder. It's similar to the brake controllers used with trailers that have pure electric-actuated brakes.
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So simple and complete of an explanation, even a caveman could understand it. Nice job, Smokey.
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Andy
Early 99 5-98, F350 extended cab, DRW LB 245,000 miles and counting, Hood insulation delete (Soaked with fuel), Hutch mod, Harpoon mod. Otherwise, pure stock (for now)
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
AS an example, I have a Mobile Suites with Dexter axles and electric over hydraulic disc brakes that work just great with the integrated controller. so some work and some don't. I have braking like I never had before and I hope this will become a standard for heavier trailers. There is no comparison IMH from the pure electric brakes.
Larry
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7.3 99.5 550 Lariat Fontaine conversion, auto leveling airbags, auxillary transferflow midship tank, fiberglass bed,liner, 25K pullrite hitch, Diesel Innovations six way chip,pillar gauges, 4 inch exhaust. SOLD
08 f-450 4X4 LARIAT 4.88 Dark Shadow Gray to match my Mobile Suites fiver. Line-x, 0503 Pullrite 25.5k superfifth hitch, Retrax rollcover, 50 gal transferflow under cover aux tank, aftermarket pioneer avicz2 nav to come,
First have you gotten them fixed? Second how big a battery at the hydrolic controller do you have. 5amp breakaway tend to be slow active and slow to disingage when low on charge.
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First have you gotten them fixed? Second how big a battery at the hydrolic controller do you have. 5amp breakaway tend to be slow active and slow to disingage when low on charge.
[/ QUOTE ]Yup, that's what I would expect is the problem.
I used to have MasterBrake actuators on my trailers, but various problems eventually took them out of the business. These things had something like a 40 Amp or 50 Amp draw, and could apply and release as fast as you could imagine. It felt exactly like braking the truck alone (using MasterBrake controller as well).
I have tried a number of other actuators, some that rely solely on the brake signal (the one that applies electric brakes), and the bottom line is that most are way short on power to make the pressure change on a big disc setup with any kind of urgency.
Would love to hear how anyone using Dexter on a tri-axle setup is making out.
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2000 F450 Lariat 4x4 tractor, Air Dog, Reg Mod, HX, bypass filter, Banks Power Elbow w/3.5 dp, no intake heat, CCV mod, AIS (w/extra hole), DI stage IIs, GP indicator LED, custom 4" exhaust, 4" USG exhaust brake, USG 0.8555 aux. trans. (shift switch in knob), custom air susp., custom alum. rear diff cover extension (dipstick & temp), Detroit locker, ESPAR D5 aux. heat, custom alum tow deck and fuel tanks, Bushwacker 1 1/2" flares, 9k winch, gin poles, Bi-Xenon in '03 Crystals, Lightforce Striker 170 (still Halogen, but VERY bright), Hella Micro DE HID fogs, KW (Isspro) instruments, more to come & lots of other diesels
Pat, I am using the latest Dexter hydraulic pump with a dual axle Dexter disc brakes. Initially, I was using a generic Group 27, deep cycle RV battery, that came with my 4-Star trailer. Even using the Brakesmart controller, I had all sorts of issues with the pump oscillating with on off cycling that would shake the trailer apart. Tried all sorts of Brake Smart parameters/settings etc. to no avail. Then I noticed that when the battery was completely charged up their would be no surge/cycling until later in a trip. I think the battery was running down and could not keep up with the demands of the hydraulic actuator. So, I did an experiment and bought a Group 31 Commercial Yellow Top battery for the trailer. Problem solved. The cheap battery that was provided with the trailer could not keep up with hydraulic pumps needs. For two years now, no problems.
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2002 F350 Lariat CC 4x4 Auto 4.10 DRW, DP-Tuner F5 live tuned stock, quiet, 40dd, 40, 60, 80 tow, 80e and 120r, B&W GN, BrakeSmart, 'pooned tank, tank and pre-pump mods, 2µ Dahl 100 filter, regulated return, BTS dual HPOP, AC singles with EDM 34 lpm nozzles, AIS, H2e, Spearco 6.0 IC, Hypermax 3.5" dp--> MBRP 4" 304SS exhaust, BTS tranny, 203º T-stat, Chevron ELC, coolant filter, Oilguard bypass with Schaeffer 9000, WranglerNW 200 amp alternator & Optima group 31 batteries, Nippon-Denso starter, SPA gauges, SteveRacer mods, Hella 80/100W 9007s, Hella Micro DE foglights, 1000FF driving lights, 220W backup lights, Stancor contactor, Michelin XPS Traction tires, X-Springs, Bilstein shox, custom bumpers but otherwise stock. Nov 30 '99 build engine with 16 K miles, Fluidampr, Comp Cam 910 springs, Melling LPOP and ARP headstuds. Alien-Patrol Customer Service Sucks!
I run my brakes from a pair of batteries used to start my genset. I run them in series on jobsites, with a center tap for occassional moves, and switch the leads to parallel for travel. I take off power with 2 x 10 ga. wires to a 50A breaker beside the actuator. The one I have now, I can't even remember the manufacturer (Somewhere down the East coast to the South, small company, still a screw-jack operation, but no where NEAR the speed (or draw) of the BrakeSmart.
The Dexter unit wasn't available when I last changed over. How much does it draw, and other than the previous problems, how quick is the response?
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2000 F450 Lariat 4x4 tractor, Air Dog, Reg Mod, HX, bypass filter, Banks Power Elbow w/3.5 dp, no intake heat, CCV mod, AIS (w/extra hole), DI stage IIs, GP indicator LED, custom 4" exhaust, 4" USG exhaust brake, USG 0.8555 aux. trans. (shift switch in knob), custom air susp., custom alum. rear diff cover extension (dipstick & temp), Detroit locker, ESPAR D5 aux. heat, custom alum tow deck and fuel tanks, Bushwacker 1 1/2" flares, 9k winch, gin poles, Bi-Xenon in '03 Crystals, Lightforce Striker 170 (still Halogen, but VERY bright), Hella Micro DE HID fogs, KW (Isspro) instruments, more to come & lots of other diesels
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