First, I am pretty much set on a manual tranny, as I hate autos. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
i am planning on towing a 5th wheel trailer with 2 cars, each car is approx 15' long and weighs around 3300lb fully fueled. i am planning on a 43' or perhaps slightly longer trailer. total weight of trailer will be around 15k lbs. Should I go with an F350 dually or F450? i know this is around the max 5th wheel tow weight of an F350 dually, approx 3k lbs under the F450. How much does fuel mileage suffer going from 350 to 450? how much does ride suffer? Thanks!!
F450 all the way. I think it will be way more comfortable pulling a load like that since it is heavier built, and it won't be running at its max rating.
__________________
1996 F250 4x4 ext. cab, long bed 5 spd. 3.55ls, Tymar Intake, Tymar 4" downpipe and 4" exhaust. AIC, B&W turnoverball, EBPV brake, tranny temp gauge, boost gauge, and egt gauge. 235k miles and thousands of $$$$ in maintenance and repairs.
I'm a firm believer in complying with the manufacturer's weight ratings. Buy enough truck, but not way too much.
The 2008 F-350 DRW with the TowBoss pkg has a GCWR of 26,000 pounds. If your trailer grosses 15,000 pounds, that leaves 11,000 pounds for the wet and loaded weight of the tow vehicle. Your wet and loaded F-350 DRW shouldn't weigh anywhere close to 11,000 pounds without the trailer. So the F-350 will be "enuff truck" for your needs.
That same F-350 has a GVWR of 13,000 pounds. If your 15k gooseneck trailer has a hitch weight of 20 percent, that's 3,000 pounds hitch weight. The most your F-350 DRW should weigh when wet and loaded but without the triler is about 9,000 pounds. So with the trailer tied on you'll be grossing about 12,000 pounds on the two truck axles, leaving you about a thousands pounds for fudge factor.
So the answer is you "need" the F-350 DRW with the TowBoss pkg to tow a 15k trailer, with enough excess capacity to increase the weight of the trailer or the load in the bed a substantial amount before you hit the weight limits of the tow vehicle.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with "too much truck" if your pocket book can stand the hit. So order the F-450 only if you "want" it and are willing to pay for it, and realize it's going to cost you quite a bit more in the long run than the TowBoss Dooley. But you don't "need" it to tow a 15k to 16k trailer. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
The F-350 DRW with the TowBoss pkg and 4.30 rear axle has close to the same GCWR as the F-450 with the 4.30 rear axle without the high capacity towing pkg. So in effect, both with the 4.30 axle ratio have the about same towing capacity. Since the F-450 will cost more both up front and in the long run, it's economic nonsense to buy the F-450 with the 4.30 axle ratio to tow a 15k trailer. (Unless you insist on the stick shifter.)
The fly in the ointment is you want a manual tranny. The TowBoss doesn't come with a manual tranny. The F-350 DRW with a manual tranny has a GCWR of 23,500. Subtract 15k for the trailer and that leaves only 8,500 pounds for the weight of the wet and loaded tow vehicle. That's do-able, but you'll be right on the line of being overloaded, with no room for a fudge factor.
That's the cold-hearted opinion of an accountant. It doesn't place any value on the "look at me" factor. But some folks highly value the "look at me" factor. That's why some folks ruin their trucks with lifts and big tires. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much does fuel mileage suffer going from 350 to 450?</div></div>
Very little, if they both have the 4.30 rear end. The F-450 is heavier, so you have to pay extra in fuel to haul around that extra weight, but it's probably not enough difference to calculate.
__________________
My Sierra Blanca is a '99.5 PSD CrewCab hot-rod Towing Machine! BTS tranny; TurboRamAir intake and 4" stainless turbo-back exhaust; DP-Tuner tunes flashed into an Edge Evolution tuner; ISSPRO EV gauges and TTM; AIC; SP-Diesel exhaust brake and torque converter controller. I special-ordered it new and plan to drive it until it quits.
+1 i agree with smokey
plus iindurance on the 450 may be commertial over personal
and the 450 gets lower mpg because its heaver
litle thinga add up
__________________
88 F-250 body,550 rear frame setup, 7.3 idi, 3:73 dana 80 rear, srw, dana 50 front, heavy duty leaf springs, back up camera, 20$ wallyworld fog lamps, class 5 bumper hitch welded to frame and gusseted, 32" steering tires all around, ac power converter,jeep bucket seats, deezee runningboards (cab only),cobra 29 cb w/ 102" whip, 2 trucklight worklights on front stake pocket each side,high lift jack behind seat, toolbox for the junk, visor, running lights, 6600 lbs with all my junk
Don’t forget…while the 450 has a higher GCWR/GVWR, it also has a higher empty wet weight offsetting additional total capacity
In addition, even though you may have the same rear end ratio in both, wouldn’t it still be different because of larger diameter tires/wheels, increasing torque to pavement but, possibly higher RPM’s and possibly more fuel, or not?
In most states, the insurance can still be based on your personnel/private policy depending on why you are hauling cars. But, your GCWR for the 450 and your trailer will exceed 26,000 thus requiring a Class A Commercial Drivers License, where you might squeeze by with the 350.
simply a 350 is a personal and a 450 is commertial in the eyes of the police
a 450 will be checked most places while a 350 wont
making it easier if you do wish to risk hauling over your weight or you get pulled over the police take a private driver way more lightly
__________________
88 F-250 body,550 rear frame setup, 7.3 idi, 3:73 dana 80 rear, srw, dana 50 front, heavy duty leaf springs, back up camera, 20$ wallyworld fog lamps, class 5 bumper hitch welded to frame and gusseted, 32" steering tires all around, ac power converter,jeep bucket seats, deezee runningboards (cab only),cobra 29 cb w/ 102" whip, 2 trucklight worklights on front stake pocket each side,high lift jack behind seat, toolbox for the junk, visor, running lights, 6600 lbs with all my junk
The F-450 has much bigger brake rotors due to the 19.5" wheels. Also has G rated tires. That plus the 11,000# rear axle gives a lot of reserve capacity compared to the F-350. The wider front axle allows an incredibly short turning radius. You can get the wide-track front axle as an option of the F-350 dually 4x4. It's a good driving truck. I'd recommend the F-450 over the F-350.
My truck is insured by Farmers. My agent did not have any problems getting the insurance. The rate did not go up over the cost of my '04 F-350 dually I traded in.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 88beast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">simply a 350 is a personal and a 450 is commertial in the eyes of the police
a 450 will be checked most places while a 350 wont
making it easier if you do wish to risk hauling over your weight or you get pulled over the police take a private driver way more lightly </div></div>
Hmmm, even a 550 platform for a motor home? No, still personal not commercial if for private use. But yes, it will be a red flag when they count your trailer axles and lugs hauling cars.
ok ya it can be personal im saying cops will see it and think comertial meaning they will want to check
__________________
88 F-250 body,550 rear frame setup, 7.3 idi, 3:73 dana 80 rear, srw, dana 50 front, heavy duty leaf springs, back up camera, 20$ wallyworld fog lamps, class 5 bumper hitch welded to frame and gusseted, 32" steering tires all around, ac power converter,jeep bucket seats, deezee runningboards (cab only),cobra 29 cb w/ 102" whip, 2 trucklight worklights on front stake pocket each side,high lift jack behind seat, toolbox for the junk, visor, running lights, 6600 lbs with all my junk
One quick note that may help you decide. The F350 Tow Boss only comes with the automatic. So if you want the manual with a 26,000lb+ tow rating, you will need the F450.
People deliberately upgrade to 19.5" tires to get the load rating and stability. Even at a moderate load, the benefits are noticeable. Complaining about the tires being expensive only makes sense if all you do with the truck is get groceries.
Insurance rules vary widely also. Up here, a flatdeck, toolboxes and a compressor will get the commercial scrutiny; but a dually pickup won't - regardless if it says 350, 450, or 550 on the fender.
I'd go with the F450 [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
95 F350 Crew 5spd/4.10, SuperChips tuner, solid flywheel, T444E waterpump, 205° stat, Locked F&R, 9.00R16 Michelin XLs
97 E350 SRW cutaway, E4OD/D70/4.10, 19.5s on the rear, deep trans pan, batteries inside, 1800W inverter, manual glowplugs
84 C30 Suburban, 6.2/4-spd, 3.21s
Other rigs I goof around with regularly:
93 F350 4x4, 7.3 IDI turbo, 5spd, 4.10s
90 F250 4x4, 7.3 IDI, 5spd, 3.55s, D60 swap, straight pipe, turned up fuel screw
In the States it <u> </u> <u>is</u> <u> </u> GCWR for commercial consideration. Of course tfunk88's in IRAQ so who knows. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
2005 Chev Duramax/Allison 3500LS DRW Crew Cab
2006 Chev 6.0L/4L80e 3500WT DRW Ex-Cab 9'Flat-GN
Linear Mode
