Fifth or Gooseneck - Diesel Forum

jim95350 · 12-12-2005, 11:05 PM

After reading previous post it really got me to thinking that I would prefer the gooseneck with a rollover ball to provide use of the bed when not towing. Aside from the additional stresses on the trailer what other negatives are there? It seems like it might be a little easier to connect with a fifth but what else?

Thanks,
Jim

PerryB · 12-13-2005, 12:20 AM

What kind of trailer are you talking about--livestock,recreational or equiptment? Generally speaking, stock trailers will use a gooseneck ball,rv's will use a fifth wheel and equip. trailers may be found in either configuration.As a matter of personal opinion, I would aviod modifying a 5th wheel travel trailer into a goose neck due to the stress related concerns you expressed earlier. The builders of those trailers don't put any more structure into them than is necessary. If you're pulling multiple types of trailers I like the rail type mounting system, as it can go either way and only leaves two smooth,slightly raised rails in the truck bed when not in use. They are also very simple,strong and relatively inexpensive. As far as one hitching system being better than the other, I don't think it really matters although the 5er is generally a little easier to hook up as it provides a degree of self alignment.Basically, you're dealing with two separate industries that chose divergent courses of development a long time ago and niether is going to change,at this point. I believe the 5th wheel came first,but the goose neck was developed to accomodate the livestock haulers who needed hitches with a much greater range of articulation than the 5th. could offer. Today we have some very good fully pivoting 5th wheel hicthes on the market, but its far too late to change things. Also, when it comes to operating in truly trailer-hostile environments,the goose neck will likely prove to be more durable due to its simplicity of design -- many less moving parts in the actual hitching mechanism.-- Perry

BarrySmith · 12-13-2005, 12:51 AM

The only good thing I can think of a 5th over a GN is that if you have 5th wheel trailers not as many people want to borrow them. Other than that I like a GN.

fd5561 · 12-13-2005, 01:32 AM

I've had 5th wheels hitches in the past and see no advantage to them over the goose neck. I now have a GN for my 30' travel trailer. I REALLY like the GN much better. No large hitches to store and carry to the truck. I now pull a lever, roll over the ball and hook up. There are companies who make adapters for your 5th wheel. Mine is not a adaptor that goes over the 5th wheel ball but a full replacement for the trailer hitch. Just make sure you are get a GN assembly for the weight of the trailer you intend to haul.

jim95350 · 12-13-2005, 08:47 AM

Thanks All, I'm planning on a big toy hauler... 38'. I'll be hauling bicycles (low weight) so I'm thinking maybe the additional stresses won't be significant. Also, I saw this item which should decrease the shock loading http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...wItem&rd=1,1&item=4596480133&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA% 3AIT . Any more opinions... appreciate all responses pro and con.

Jim

MudHog · 12-13-2005, 01:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks All, I'm planning on a big toy hauler... 38'. I'll be hauling bicycles (low weight) so I'm thinking maybe the additional stresses won't be significant. Also, I saw this item which should decrease the shock loading http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...wItem&rd=1,1&item=4596480133&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA% 3AIT . Any more opinions... appreciate all responses pro and con.

Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

May I ask why your looking at a toyhauler to haul bicycles? Is the toyhauler floorplan that much better? You can get a regular camper and get bike racks that fit onto the hitch in front of the camper or onto the bumper in the rear of the camper.

Also check out the Cody Coupler. (2) 3/4" box end wrenchs and you can install or remove the adapter from the trailer.

rconcerto · 12-13-2005, 02:33 PM

i just posted a question, but i put it in the wrong category. i need some advice. i have a 1999 f350 dually, i plan on hauling a gooseneck horse trailer this spring. i need to have a fifth wheel installed but noticed that truck sits quite high. is this going to pose a problem? how do i know if its too high? can i measure the height of the bed? i was told that ford for some reason made the 99 higher in the rear end, is this true? so what do i do know, how much clearance should i have? i dont wan tthe trailer to ride at angle. any help or advice
melissa

jim95350 · 12-13-2005, 04:10 PM

Sure, they're really expensive bikes and I don't want them exposed to the elements, both environmental and criminal. Also, I like the idea of the garage providing a workspace for maintenance on the bikes after dark or during rain etc.

Ag__Teacher · 12-14-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Basically, you're dealing with two separate industries that chose divergent courses of development a long time ago and niether is going to change,at this point. I believe the 5th wheel came first,but the goose neck was developed to accomodate the livestock haulers who needed hitches with a much greater range of articulation than the 5th. could offer. -- Perry

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the differce in the development is due to the fact that fifthwheels were orginally developed for cab and chassis trucks (semi tractors) to pull trailers and goosenecks were developed so pickups (with high bed rails) could pull trailers. Thus the Goose that could bend up and over the tailgate and then back down into the bed floor.

Why the RV makers ever decided to go with a fifth wheel hitch is anyones guess but I'm assuming it is to lower cost to the manufacturer and save weight since most fifthwheel frames are lighter than Gooseneck frames.

**SteveRacer** · 12-14-2005, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would prefer the gooseneck with a rollover ball to provide use of the bed when not towing.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's your biggest concern, B&W makes a 5er adpater for their "turnoverball" hitch. I have an inverted 5th wheel, so I have a pin plate in the truck bed. If I want it out, just pull the hook and pull it out. Nothing but a square hole in the bed, and you can even get a cover for that. The 5th wheel adapter is more expensive, and a bit heavier to pull out, but it's the same concept.

http://www.turnoverball.com/companion/index.htm

I'm also not ready to conceed that 5er's are built any less strong than a gooseneck. Perhaps if you are comparing a camper to a livestock trailer, but a good toyhauler or box trailer with a 5er pin will be just as strong as a gooseneck. I'll put my Briton/Transport Designs 5er against any similar purpose gooseneck. It's the same structure.

http://www.ssdiv.com/5er.jpg

-steve

DirtFarmer · 12-14-2005, 05:50 PM

The thing is, a gooseneck hitch is on the end of a long "arm" which places a lot of torque on the trailer frame. The fiver hitch is a much shorter stub so the forces on the trailer frame are in shear instead of bending from the torque. That's why the manufacturer of some fivers specifically warn against using a gooseneck adapter.

jim95350 · 12-14-2005, 08:42 PM

yeah, I've been looking at that bw 5er companion but I don't like the idea of wrestling that thing in and out of the bed. I'm really leaning towards the rollover with the cushioned hitch. I'm relying on the idea that the toyhauler probably has a pretty beefy structure and with the light loading I'll have I think it will be OK. Ealier someone talked about reinforcing the structure around the hitch so I'll also take a look at that when I get the trailer.

Wayne B · 12-14-2005, 09:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, I've been looking at that bw 5er companion but I don't like the idea of wrestling that thing in and out of the bed. I'm really leaning towards the rollover with the cushioned hitch. I'm relying on the idea that the toyhauler probably has a pretty beefy structure and with the light loading I'll have I think it will be OK. Ealier someone talked about reinforcing the structure around the hitch so I'll also take a look at that when I get the trailer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually hauling a light load in a Toy Hauler is harder on the hitch.
The trailer is designed to have a few thousand pounds in the back, but you will only have a few hundred. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] The weight in the back takes weight off the hitch.

Wayne B

PerryB · 12-14-2005, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Why the RV makers ever decided to go with a fifth wheel hitch is anyones guess but I'm assuming it is to lower cost to the manufacturer and save weight since most fifthwheel frames are lighter than Gooseneck frames.

[/ QUOTE ] You raise a good point about the background of the GN development and why it didn't find its way into the RV market. While we're at it, What do you know about riding in GN's VS. 5ers. In most states you can ride in a 5er if you have 2 way comm. between the truck and trailer. Is there any technical difference in this regard?

jim95350 · 12-15-2005, 07:29 AM

Ah, good point Wayne. But, shouldn't light loading just result in a heavier vertical force at the pin. Whereas, the loading I'm concerned about is additional torque of the gooseneck, which is strictly a result of the longer lever arm X gvw at the hitch, regardless of the hitch weight?

Thanks,
Jim