I'm new to the towing forum here. I have been recently considering a camper approx. 30ft long to pull with my F350. I originally thought that a bumper pull would be best bet because it would leave my bed free for other stuff. But then thought a fifth wheel, for that length of trailer would be more secure and safer. The problem is I cannot have a fifth wheel hitch in the back of my truck. I use the bed too much and do not want to try lifting a fifth wheel assembly out of it not to mention storing it. Am I correct in the safety issue? Also, Is is possible to easily convert a fifth to a gooseneck? And if so how much money would it take to do that?
Thanks
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Ordered 2/03/05 -- Picked up 4/08/05 '05 Black ext/Tan int., F-350 FX4, Crew Cab, Long bed, SRW, 6.0, Auto 3.73, Lariat, Moonroof, Cab lights, ESOF, Power rear slider, Reverse sensors, Upfitters, Heated seats 40/20/40, 6 CD, Adjustable pedals,Snow plow prep, Stabilizer pkg, Tow command, Hitch receiver, PTO, Chrome tube steps, remote start, Hefty bill!
Upgrade from a 1987 Honda Accord.
I have been towing a 24ft, 8000lb 5th wheel for just short of the last 3 years with a gooseneck converter. It works just fine. I just unhitch, popdown the ball and the bed is clear.
However, there are a couple of things you should know. First, not many fifth wheels - especially one as long as yours - can take the extra force applied to the frame by the gooseneck extension. Call the trailer manufacturer and ask them if it is OK. Northwood, the make of my Arctic Fox, said no problem and they are correct so far.
Also, I haven't seen one in person, but I think B+W makes a turnover GN ball which attaches to their special 5th wheel hitch and that hitch is supposed to be light enough to remove easily. I'm sure someone else will chime in with more complete info. It would work OK with your longbed.
If you go the GN route, the GN hitch (popup or turnover type) is about $300-$400 and the GN converter which attaches to the 5th wheel pinbox is $500-$600. That doesn't include labor, but they are pretty easy to install yourself.
I just got one of these http://www.codyhitch.com/cody%20coupler.htm
For a 28 footer I'm picking up next week. I'll let you know in about a week and a half how it works [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]
-------Robert
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'92 F-350 7.3 5 spd, Crew Cab dually,ATS turbo, 4" Exhaust, Air seat, Western Hauler bed. My Gallery
You will have folks tell you it's wrong. But you can also find lots of folks that are doing just that with no problems.
Before I bought my trailer, I did some research on this issue. I went to a few RV forums and looked around. Even joined one. Most have at least a couple of threads on this topic. All of those threads talk about the additional stresses put on the king pin. However, I didn't find anyone on those forums who had ever actually experienced a problem with a setup like that. It wasn't until this came up on here a few months ago, that anyone ever said they'd experienced a problem and that was one person in several pages of responses.
__________________ 2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, (still running the original flash!), AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Total Diesel Performance, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers. 376hp
Interesting link, RLDSL. That is exactly what I am looking for. Teamroper, I never thought of a conversion being wrong or unsafe. Are these safe? I don't know how thick the king pin is, but is looks pretty stout. Much stouter than the shank on a 2 5/16 ball! -- But I guess I have never looked at one that close. I noticed there is a "warning" about using the coupler ie: driving habits mentioned in RLDSL's link. Are these warnings really any different than using a bumper pull set up? I would think this set up would be superior to a bumper pull. What if I had the coupler welded in place. Would that make if less stressful on the king pin? I definately want to be safe with the family in the truck with me!
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Ordered 2/03/05 -- Picked up 4/08/05 '05 Black ext/Tan int., F-350 FX4, Crew Cab, Long bed, SRW, 6.0, Auto 3.73, Lariat, Moonroof, Cab lights, ESOF, Power rear slider, Reverse sensors, Upfitters, Heated seats 40/20/40, 6 CD, Adjustable pedals,Snow plow prep, Stabilizer pkg, Tow command, Hitch receiver, PTO, Chrome tube steps, remote start, Hefty bill!
Upgrade from a 1987 Honda Accord.
It's very strong and high quality the way it is. I've looked at a couple of them up close, two friends have them, one a 32 footer with slideout and the other a bit longer, so they're pulling considerable weight. Mine is welded on, but it was shop fabbed except for the gooseneck tube itself. Later they came out with the factory made bolt-on types.
There are some concerns with 5th wheels that have extended pin boxes for clearance with short bed trucks, but you can weld reinforcements on the box and pull the skin down around it and weld in some extra support to compensate for it.The weak link is not the coupler, it's the pin box itself where it mounts to the trailer frame.
Personally, I might think that the reason some people have trouble with them might be some of these cowboys that are used to yanking gooseneck horse trailers over logs might have a habit of getting a little rough with the things in the deer woods. I've seen what some of those boys can do to just about any trailer and I don't think that kind of treatment would mix well with one of these things.
-----Robert
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'92 F-350 7.3 5 spd, Crew Cab dually,ATS turbo, 4" Exhaust, Air seat, Western Hauler bed. My Gallery
I guess there could be issues with a pinbox extension for the same reason there could be issues with the 5th wheel frame. Either one could be reinforced. The only real issue with a short box like mine is the same as with a 5th wheel hitch - crunching the cab on a tight turn. My pinbox extends about 16 inches forward from the mounting point (not unusual) and my GN adapter has an extra 9 inch forward offset. I have never come close to bumping the cab - including offroad use. No pinbox or frame reinforcement was required in my case.
Good to hear from some folks with longer 5th wheels successfully using GN converters. It is still a good idea to check with the 5th wheel manufacturer first, especially if you buy a new trailer. Some will void the frame warrenty if you use a GN (based on info from the 'Open roads forum').
BTW, if you look at the specs you will find most GN hitches and converters are rated for more weight than most 5th wheel hitches. My GN hitch is rated for 30K trailer/7.5K tongue weight and the converter is rated for 24K trailer/6K tongue weight.
I work for an RV dealer & after a couple of "failures" related to the use of these 5th wheel - gooseneck conversions we will no longer sell or recomend the use of these items. Every manufacturer we sell will VOID the frame warranty if they find out that one of those converters was used.
Yes,I know there are all sorts of success stories related to their use, but do you want to be the guy who has the pin box break free & have the first 6' of your trailer smash into the cab of your tow vehicle ?
You can get an underbed mounted 5th hitch so the bed is free of any hitch stuff. And as far as removing the hitch, most do come apart into more easily moved components. The storage issue is minor when compared to storing a 30' trailer...
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Cranky old guy with a '05 F250 C/C shortbed.
I think it depends on the RV itself, the way/amount it's loaded, road conditions, and your driving style.
The frame/structure of the RV is the weakest link. I have seen a couple of the aluminum sided 5th wheels with the goose adapter, that popped the aluminum loose from the studs. On an RV, the structure itself is some of the strength. Not just the frame. The goose adapter seems to make the frame/structure flex more than usual, and sometimes pop the staples loose. Also I have seen several RV's like mine, 36ft Raptor, with the goose adapter, and have yet to see a problem. My previous RV popped the sides loose just from using an extended pinbox. So,,, Like I stated earlier,,I think it depends on the RV itself(type/style/quality) and how rough you will be. I may be rougher on mine than some. I have a crazy wife, which means the RV is usually loaded quite heavily, and I hit it at about 75 on interstates, 60-65 on smaller roads. And if we want to go up the mountain to camp, up the mountain we go. Sometimes in 4lo.
As for lifting the 5th wheel hitch out. My 74 year old pop leaves the hitch coupled/hanging on his trailer. He pulls the pins from the bed rails and uses his power jacks to raise the trailer and hitch. Just a thought.
2006 F350 CC LWB Dually XLT Oxford white manual 4x4 6.0 PSD 6 speed. 4.10 LS front and rear, Built May05. 4" turbo back, 100gal aux fuel tank. A real pig from a stop, but give me 10' and she'll lite'em up.
Bob C.,
An under the bed fifth hitch? are these common or easy to find? Where would be a good place to look? How much would that whole setup cost? At the time, I'm not sure if I am too comfortable with the adapter. Maybe I'm getting old (32) but I would rather error on the side of safety.
RatherBNthewoods, I like your idea of leaving it on the trailer. Heck, It could hang there till next use couldn't it!?
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Ordered 2/03/05 -- Picked up 4/08/05 '05 Black ext/Tan int., F-350 FX4, Crew Cab, Long bed, SRW, 6.0, Auto 3.73, Lariat, Moonroof, Cab lights, ESOF, Power rear slider, Reverse sensors, Upfitters, Heated seats 40/20/40, 6 CD, Adjustable pedals,Snow plow prep, Stabilizer pkg, Tow command, Hitch receiver, PTO, Chrome tube steps, remote start, Hefty bill!
Upgrade from a 1987 Honda Accord.
RatherBNthewoods, I like your idea of leaving it on the trailer. Heck, It could hang there till next use couldn't it!?
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Pop leaves his hanging almost all the time. When he gets to the woods/camp, he leaves it hanging so he can use the truck to haul wood/water etc...When he gets home, he leaves it hanging for the winter and locks it on so the bad boys can't take it. When he starts to load, he backs up under the hitch, lowers the RV until the hitch is just almost is touching, and drops it into the bed, Moves it into place, pins it, and backs on up under it.
2006 F350 CC LWB Dually XLT Oxford white manual 4x4 6.0 PSD 6 speed. 4.10 LS front and rear, Built May05. 4" turbo back, 100gal aux fuel tank. A real pig from a stop, but give me 10' and she'll lite'em up.
I also have the Cody Coupler, on an 8K fiver. It's been in use for 4+ years, and has about 28K miles on it. I've towed lots of freeway miles at speeds up to 75mph and lots of nasty dirt roads.
Never had one problem with the adapter, fiver pinbox, or the GN hitch. On one really nasty road I did have the front corner of the fiver actually touch the top of the bed rail, no damage; but if I have been going more than 2mph it might have done something.
As with any hitch, you should check the torque on the bolts at least twice a year.
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2001 F250 SC 4X4 Blue PSD Auto, Cody Gooseneck Hitch, Rancho Shocks and Steering Stabilzer, Tekonsha Prodigy Controller, Garmin Streetpilot 2610 GPS, Walker BTM, 285/75R/16E, Western Diesel Trans-Pyro-Boost, Pillar Mount, Painless fuse panel, In-tank and Pre-pump mods, Slotted Rear Rotors, Slotted and Cross Drilled Front Rotors, Fumoto Valve, Zoodad Mod, Transfer Flow 46 gal tank, Mag-Hytec Differential Cover, Electric Tailgate Lock, IAH Deleted, Coolant Filter, DP-Tuner 80 hp PCM, CCV Mod, 203 Thermostat, Ford AIS Air Filter
I spent a lot of time thinking and researching this same question. I have a short bed so the problem became a little tougher. Had the need for a slider not been an issue I would have absolutely gone with the B&W turn over ball with their 5th wheel companion. Great product with a good price. Since my wife is going to be pulling the trailer I bit the bullet and went with the Tow Rite Super Glide.
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2006 F250 CC 4x4 6.0 Harley Davidson Dark Shadow Grey.
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Bob C.,
An under the bed fifth hitch? are these common or easy to find? Where would be a good place to look? How much would that whole setup cost? At the time, I'm not sure if I am too comfortable with the adapter. Maybe I'm getting old (32) but I would rather error on the side of safety.
RatherBNthewoods, I like your idea of leaving it on the trailer. Heck, It could hang there till next use couldn't it!?
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Shouldnt be hard to find & installation isnt much harder than regular 5th hitch, you just have to be accurate with your hole locations.
The dealership I work for sells the Husky brand (which is built by Valley) & as a result that is what I am the most familiar with.
Both are available at any R.V. dealer & I would bet you could find the Valley hitches at a truck accessory store as well.
As far as cost, I couldnt even give you a guess, as most of our hitch work is worked into the purchase of the trailer.
I think Reese makes an underbed mounted hitch as well.
If you encounter a dealer/ counterperson who has never heard of the underbed mounts, keep looking because they are not that unusual.
With the underbed system leaving the hitch on the trailer may make things a little more difficult at hitch up time, but you could always leave the head on the trailer & then all you have to lift out of the truck is the hitch frame/ lower section.
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Cranky old guy with a '05 F250 C/C shortbed.
2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, (still running the original flash!), AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Total Diesel Performance, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers. 376hp
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