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Old 11-18-2008, 01:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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GCVW - getting it straight

Ran into an interesting one that got me thinking.

My rig is a 2000 F350 DRW that has been converted to a SRW, 6 speed, 3.73 gears, long box and crew cab.

I haul a 16 ft gooseneck dump trailer and had to move a Mid-sized excavator. The excavator is 10,100lbs, trailer is about 4,200 and I would guess the truck is 8100? I was wondering how close I was to my GCWR on this load? I figured I was right at it, but the truck handles this just fine and got me thinking because I know I hauled over 5 ton in the same trailer (truck was a DRW then) and really didn't have an issue. So why does it seem that the GCWR is low for these rigs, is it because I have a lightened up DRW that has 3.73 gears and the same truck can be rated much higher with proper gearing?

Next question is how bad would my father's 1998, 2500, auto, 12V cummins, club cab, short bed with 3.73 gears been over GCWR.

My F350 will eventually end up with 19.5 inch tires on it so that I can get the capacity back up as a SRW in a 16 inch tire is my limiting factor. As it is right now I rarely pull anything over 14K with this truck right now.
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1992 E350 7.3 IDI, 3.73 club van - 160K
1998 Quad cab 2500 12V Cummins, 4x4,auto, all stock with 145K miles
2000 F350,DRW converted to SRW with Vision 19.5" wheels,4x4,6 speed,Lariat,Napa 6642 airfilter,Edge Juice w/Attitude,Cody Cushon gooseneck, 175K, Prodigy, 3.73 gears
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 200K
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 230K
2003 TDI Jetta Maual 90K
1999 Polaris Diesel Quad
2004 Kubota BX 1500 599cc diesel
(yah I like the old mechanical diesels)

Last edited by Westro; 11-18-2008 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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First let's get the terms straight. There is no such thing as GCVW. There is GCWR and GVWR. GCWR is gross combined weight rating, truck and trailer combined. GVWR is gross Vehicle weight rating = the amount of weight, including hitch weight, on the two truck axles.

Your WAG for the weight of your wet and loaded truck is probably way low. Mine weighs that much with normal stuff in it such as toolbox, bedliner, and one passenger. Yours is probably closer to 8,500 with SRW.

Your GCWR os 20,000 pounds. So if the tow vehicle grosses 8,500 without the trailer, that leaves 11,500 for max trailer weight.

Your GVWR with the duals mounted is 11,200, but a lot less with single rear tires. Since the F-350 SRW has a GVWR of 9,900 pounds, and yours has the beffier rear axle and suspension, I'd guess it would be around 10,500 or so. So a max payload of about 2,000 pounds for hitch weight.

If your guess is right that the trailer is 4,200 and the load is 10,100, that's a gross trailer weight of about 14,300 pounds with about 2,860 pounds of hitch weight.

So your SRW truck will have a GCW of around 22,800 compared to your GCWR of 20,000. And it will have a GVW of about 11,360 compare to an estimated GVWR of 10,500. So 2,280 over the GCWR and 860 over the GVWR of your tow vehicle.

So yes, you're overloaded, but probably not over the axle or tire weight limits. So drive careful and slow with that load.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thank you, you have cleared up a lot of confusion on my part.

This is nice to know because as a general rule of thumb for my trailer I should try to keep my load below 4.5 ton when picking up loads of rock/dirt or what ever in there.


Does anyone know the GCWR of my father's Dodge, cummins, 2500, 4x4, auto, 3.73 gears quad cab short box? I would like to know as most times I try to push him to use my truck when he is off with this trailer.
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1992 E350 7.3 IDI, 3.73 club van - 160K
1998 Quad cab 2500 12V Cummins, 4x4,auto, all stock with 145K miles
2000 F350,DRW converted to SRW with Vision 19.5" wheels,4x4,6 speed,Lariat,Napa 6642 airfilter,Edge Juice w/Attitude,Cody Cushon gooseneck, 175K, Prodigy, 3.73 gears
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 200K
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 230K
2003 TDI Jetta Maual 90K
1999 Polaris Diesel Quad
2004 Kubota BX 1500 599cc diesel
(yah I like the old mechanical diesels)

Last edited by Westro; 11-18-2008 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westro View Post
Does anyone know the GCWR of my father's Dodge, cummins, 2500, 4x4, auto, 3.73 gears quad cab short box?
I don't do Mopars, but as a general rule they are equivalent to a comparably-equipped Ford. So if it's a '99 through '04, then it probably has a GVWR of 8,800 pounds and a GCWR of 20,000 pounds.

But you can ignore the GCWR, because that's not the limiter. The limiter on a Ford F-250 or Dodge 2500 is the GVWR. With one passenger and normal tools and stuff, figure on a wet and loaded weight of 8,000 pounds before you tie onto a trailer. That leaves only 800 pounds of available payload for hitch weight. So that's a max gooseneck trailer weight of 4,000 pounds, a max 5er trailer weight of about 5,000 pounds, and a max tag trailer weight of about 7,275 pounds. (Those numbers assume a percentage of hitch weight of 20 percent for a gooseneck, 16 percent for a small 5er, and 11 percent for a properly loaded and balanced tag trailer.)

So you are right in trying to convince him to use your tow vehicle for any trailer of normal size with any load at all.

My F-250 CrewCab 4x2 PSD weighs about 8,000 pounds not counting the trailer hitch weight when I'm on the road with my 5er, toolchest, cooler, floor jack, sweetheart, and my itty bitty puppydog. Someone with a comparable pickup with the added 400-or-so pounds of a 4x4 would have to leave a lot of stuff at home in order to get the weight down to 8,000 pounds.

My wet and loaded 5er weighs 8,000 pounds. And with the 5er tied on for a cross-country trip, my GVW is usually between 9,200 and 9,600 pounds, or 400 to 800 pounds overloaded. So my next tow vehicle will be an F-350 SRW.
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Dodge has/had many options for that 3/4 ton truck that affect curb weight and GVW. You do not supply enough info, nor do too many on this board know that much about a competitors truck, sorry.

If I were to bet, GVW of 8800 lbs, curb weight around 7k.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks, yah I can't find much information on his truck as far as capacity is concerned. I should dig into his manual as simple internet searches are not getting me what I need.

His truck is a sport trim, 4x4, club cab, short box, I believe that I have weighed his truck at around 6700lbs. I know his truck is significantly lighter than my F350. I love the motor in his truck (12V Cummins) all stock, but the tranny is getting weak and you tie any type of load behind his truck and you wish you were running my longer, heavier sprung truck. Apples to oranges comparison as his and my truck are not equipped the same.

Sad part is it appears my once equipped DRW F350 can be too small for potential loads.
__________________
1992 E350 7.3 IDI, 3.73 club van - 160K
1998 Quad cab 2500 12V Cummins, 4x4,auto, all stock with 145K miles
2000 F350,DRW converted to SRW with Vision 19.5" wheels,4x4,6 speed,Lariat,Napa 6642 airfilter,Edge Juice w/Attitude,Cody Cushon gooseneck, 175K, Prodigy, 3.73 gears
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 200K
2002 TDI Jetta Manual 230K
2003 TDI Jetta Maual 90K
1999 Polaris Diesel Quad
2004 Kubota BX 1500 599cc diesel
(yah I like the old mechanical diesels)

Last edited by Westro; 11-19-2008 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westro View Post
Does anyone know the GCWR of my father's Dodge, cummins, 2500, 4x4, auto, 3.73 gears quad cab short box? I would like to know as most times I try to push him to use my truck when he is off with this trailer.
I had a 1998 Dodge 3500 Cummins 24 valve, DRW, 2x4, auto, 3.73 gears, quad cab, long bed. GCWR was around 14,800. My truck and fiver went around 18,900 and the truck performed very well.
The 24V only had 235 hp and 460 ft-lbs of torque back then.
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