Having two trucks now each with one of these overdrives, I thought I'd share some observations with anyone who is considering putting one in. Note that I am not an overdrive expert like some here, or a professional mechanic. I've been fixing my own vehicles for 40 years and just finished installing the US Gear unit in the '85 (see signature). Here's what I've noticed about them:
_________________________________Gear Vendors____________US Gear
Engagement________________________smooth__________ you get a "Clunk"
Automatic/manual engagement________both_______________manual only
Towing Capacity___________________lower________________35 ,000 lbs.
Ease of use________________________easy_________practice your shifts
weight____________________________lighter_________ ______heavier
Use in 4WD__________________________no___________________ _yes
There are probably a lot of other differences that others can add, but this is what I've notice in a month or so of driving both trucks with these units.
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If you don't have anything to do, get a used diesel and a camper!
Truck 1: 1985 F350 dually 4WD 6.9 diesel crew cab auto with 83k original miles. C6 trans, 4.10 rear end. Mods are Banks Turbo, US Gear overdrive, 45gal rear tank, hydroboost brakes, additional leaf springs all around, Hellwig airbags, rear sway bar, GM glowplug controller, fuel Koalescer. 235/85 R16 Michelin XB Rib radials. 11ft.6in Vacationeer cabover camper, TorkLift tiedowns.
Truck 2: 1988 F250 7.3, C6 auto, 2WD w/3.55 limited slip rear axle, Banks Sidewinder Turbo, Gear Vendors overdrive, Utility box, hydraulic lift gate, lumber rack.
Auto: 1987 MBZ 300D Turbo 3.0 Liter 6 cylinder engine. 205K miles. Working on all the "little things" that previous owner neglected. Putting in wvo tank.
I agree, as a truck mechanic, the basic design of the US Gear versus the other would be what I'd buy. In a way, it's kind of like a miniature 2 speed rear end in theory, in fact they use an Eaton two speed rear end shift motor to shift it. Both, US and 2spd, should last forever if used right.
i need to search and read every thread here on these two overdrives, because it looks like it is a product i need to tackle ...
i want to get a new TowBoss equipped truck for towing my 15K trailer, but i have never been that excited about 4.3 gears, i'm more used to the 3.73 i have now. I just am not completely comforatable with driving down the freeway unloaded at 70mph pushing 2500-3000 rpms with 4.3's.
So here comes the overdrive idea.
Plus, Gear Vendors is about 3 miles from my house. (anyone want me to go there for them?) But some of these threads don't exactly have a lot of good things to say about their products, their service after the fact,....
But i DO want my towing AND tall gears while unloaded.
Too much to ask?
I have a 04 550 with 4.88 gears and a Gearvendor. It has worked perfectly for 25,000 miles. I have been VERY careful not to use it in the tow-haul mode. I am getting a new truck in awhile and am considering the US gear for the ability to use it with the tow haul and 4x4 mode. Other than that I have had no problems with the GV. I use my truck as a daily driver, about 35 miles each way to work, and love the lower RPMs with the extra overdrive.
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2004 F550 Lariat Fontaine Classic Traveler 4x4, auto,Oxford white, transferflow 33 gal aux tank, link air ride suspension, hadley air horns, ventvisor window covers, curt turnover gooseneck hitch, alcoa 19.5 wheels, 4" exhaust, gearvendor,Brakesmart brake controller,painless wiring kit, 3 gauge pillar pod with pyro, trans & boost, ONKI grill-brush guard. Hella 1000 driving lights. Stull Shadow grill insert,clifford remote start alarm w/turbo cool down, dual rancho stearing stabilizer, towing a 2003 Silverado 3 horse 12" LQ gooseneck.
Like I said in another thread, I have the Gear Vendor, and I love it. I had one small problem with it, and it was taken care of promptly by GV. It shifts smooth, and seems reliable...........Dave
__________________ Dave 11 #3
FOREVER THE MAN
LEGENDS NEVER DIE
1997 F350 CC DRW 4X4, Black. Centaurus2 conversion. Banks IC & powdercoated tubes. Stage 2's by Full Force Performance,BDP Dom 66, BDP Fuel system , TS 6 pos chip with Bills & T Wildmans burns, AFE intake, 4" exhaust. Gear Vendor Overdrive. E4OD with Suncoast Pro-Loc TC, 4.10 gears. Sky's RSK, Kelderman air ride, Bilsteins, 40 gal Transfer Flow. Alcoa's. Pioneer stereo, full floor and overhead console.
Maybe I'm wrong and a Tow Boss isn't as big a truck as I think it is, but if it is, I'd think you could order it with a manual 5spd with 5th over, and a two speed rear end, that would be the hot deal.
I like the operation of the GV over the US Gear. If I was driving a pickup around a lot without towing really heavy loads, I think I'd go for the GV. It works just like another gear in the transmission...no fuss, no muss, just a shift into overdrive that sounds just like any other shift of the transmission. On the other hand, that US Gear unit is built like the proverbial brick &@#$house and will likely tow anything your truck can pull. Every shift has a 2-second delay after you hit the switch (waiting for the motor to wind up), and there is no automatic feature. And a big CLUNK when it engages. Not a big deal, but the GV is much nicer to drive.
__________________
If you don't have anything to do, get a used diesel and a camper!
Truck 1: 1985 F350 dually 4WD 6.9 diesel crew cab auto with 83k original miles. C6 trans, 4.10 rear end. Mods are Banks Turbo, US Gear overdrive, 45gal rear tank, hydroboost brakes, additional leaf springs all around, Hellwig airbags, rear sway bar, GM glowplug controller, fuel Koalescer. 235/85 R16 Michelin XB Rib radials. 11ft.6in Vacationeer cabover camper, TorkLift tiedowns.
Truck 2: 1988 F250 7.3, C6 auto, 2WD w/3.55 limited slip rear axle, Banks Sidewinder Turbo, Gear Vendors overdrive, Utility box, hydraulic lift gate, lumber rack.
Auto: 1987 MBZ 300D Turbo 3.0 Liter 6 cylinder engine. 205K miles. Working on all the "little things" that previous owner neglected. Putting in wvo tank.
The other difference is the ability to deal with engine braking loads.
Obviously, I have a definite bias (having done a LOT of research before going into this project), but the other big deal is that the GV will always be a 0.78 box and that is that. To be useful as a true "splitter", you need a different ratio, and only the USG can accomodate (since they are a GEAR manufacturer) - and even that was like pulling teeth (to make it economical due to the small volumes, it took an engineering brainstorm to come up with a way of doing it from the existing forging blanks and by cutting only one new gear).
As for smoothness: the USG can be shifted almost imperceptibly, but it takes some skill and practice. Pre-selecting becomes a thing you do without any extra thought or effort - just habit. As has been pointed out, it IS a two speed rear end moved forward to the gearbox (or transfer case), which keeps the unsprung weight under control.
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2000 F450 Lariat 4x4 tractor, Air Dog, Reg Mod, HX, bypass filter, Banks Power Elbow w/3.5 dp, no intake heat, CCV mod, AIS (w/extra hole), DI stage IIs, GP indicator LED, custom 4" exhaust, 4" USG exhaust brake, USG 0.8555 aux. trans. (shift switch in knob), custom air susp., custom alum. rear diff cover extension (dipstick & temp), Detroit locker, ESPAR D5 aux. heat, custom alum tow deck and fuel tanks, Bushwacker 1 1/2" flares, 9k winch, gin poles, Bi-Xenon in '03 Crystals, Lightforce Striker 170 (still Halogen, but VERY bright), Hella Micro DE HID fogs, KW (Isspro) instruments, more to come & lots of other diesels
[ QUOTE ]
...and a Tow Boss isn't as big a truck as I think it is, but if it is, I'd think you could order it with a manual 5spd with 5th over, and a two speed rear end, that would be the hot deal. ...
[/ QUOTE ]
that really is my primary goal, the top-end over,..
.. and the TowBoss is the new tow-package for the F350's available only on the 4.3 gears, or rather it IS the 4.3 gears, so that top end is MY primary concern ...
so, to a layman (me) trying to catch up... it sounds like the U.S. Gear will:
- can use it with an exhaust brake; or at least the engine can backpedal without using the go-pedal for extended downhill periods;
- can use it in 4WD;
- can use it in TowHaul mode;
- more evenly splits the gears;
- is simpler/cheaper then G.V.;
and,... GearVendor does not have these abilities .?.
that seems like a big difference in usability to me
When I read the literature on both units, I see gear ratios of .78 to .8 for both units. Do you have different information? It would be nice to have a taller gear ratio than they come with. As it is, most of us seem to be targeting "sweet spot" freeway cruising rpms of 1600 to 2000. Without changing tire size, my units give me 2200 to 2400 rpms at freeway speeds. I never have understood why they settled on the .8 gear ratio.
BTW..good point about engine braking. I understand that GV has a weakness in this area and shouldn't be used with an exhaust brake. (Just what I recall reading on this forum).
Monte
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If you don't have anything to do, get a used diesel and a camper!
Truck 1: 1985 F350 dually 4WD 6.9 diesel crew cab auto with 83k original miles. C6 trans, 4.10 rear end. Mods are Banks Turbo, US Gear overdrive, 45gal rear tank, hydroboost brakes, additional leaf springs all around, Hellwig airbags, rear sway bar, GM glowplug controller, fuel Koalescer. 235/85 R16 Michelin XB Rib radials. 11ft.6in Vacationeer cabover camper, TorkLift tiedowns.
Truck 2: 1988 F250 7.3, C6 auto, 2WD w/3.55 limited slip rear axle, Banks Sidewinder Turbo, Gear Vendors overdrive, Utility box, hydraulic lift gate, lumber rack.
Auto: 1987 MBZ 300D Turbo 3.0 Liter 6 cylinder engine. 205K miles. Working on all the "little things" that previous owner neglected. Putting in wvo tank.
The 0.8 and 0.78 ratios were derrived from a time when one tons had T-18 (or T-19?) and such 4 speeds, with a much wider gap in 2-3 and 3-4 than today's 5 speed and 6 speed boxes (typically closer to 0.7 now). In the old days, an aux box would nicely split a 4 speed, giving you 7 useful gears (one being "granny"). A taller step would make the top to top-OD jump too much for a 7.3, and the 0.8 would be just about right (same as 4-5 in ZF6). Of course, to split gears, you need something like 0.85 today.
Pat
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2000 F450 Lariat 4x4 tractor, Air Dog, Reg Mod, HX, bypass filter, Banks Power Elbow w/3.5 dp, no intake heat, CCV mod, AIS (w/extra hole), DI stage IIs, GP indicator LED, custom 4" exhaust, 4" USG exhaust brake, USG 0.8555 aux. trans. (shift switch in knob), custom air susp., custom alum. rear diff cover extension (dipstick & temp), Detroit locker, ESPAR D5 aux. heat, custom alum tow deck and fuel tanks, Bushwacker 1 1/2" flares, 9k winch, gin poles, Bi-Xenon in '03 Crystals, Lightforce Striker 170 (still Halogen, but VERY bright), Hella Micro DE HID fogs, KW (Isspro) instruments, more to come & lots of other diesels
I understand. With so many forward gears in today's transmissions, the ratios are closer together than they used to be, so effective gear splitting means a smaller step than it used to. I'm mostly interested in the top gear..overdrive, and for my rigs, the step doesn't get me to the rpm range I'd like. Of course, I have no experience with an overdrive that might give me a .64 or so final drive ratio, so I take your word for it that it would be a big step.
Mel has an overdrive transmission and uses a GV in addition, but he wouldn't be shifting from 1:1 to .64 to 1 in one step.
Monte
__________________
If you don't have anything to do, get a used diesel and a camper!
Truck 1: 1985 F350 dually 4WD 6.9 diesel crew cab auto with 83k original miles. C6 trans, 4.10 rear end. Mods are Banks Turbo, US Gear overdrive, 45gal rear tank, hydroboost brakes, additional leaf springs all around, Hellwig airbags, rear sway bar, GM glowplug controller, fuel Koalescer. 235/85 R16 Michelin XB Rib radials. 11ft.6in Vacationeer cabover camper, TorkLift tiedowns.
Truck 2: 1988 F250 7.3, C6 auto, 2WD w/3.55 limited slip rear axle, Banks Sidewinder Turbo, Gear Vendors overdrive, Utility box, hydraulic lift gate, lumber rack.
Auto: 1987 MBZ 300D Turbo 3.0 Liter 6 cylinder engine. 205K miles. Working on all the "little things" that previous owner neglected. Putting in wvo tank.
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