Help with 5'er towing with my f250!!!!! - Diesel Forum

bradsF250 · 09-11-2009, 03:35 PM

First let me tell you what I have before my dilema! I have a 2000 Ford F250 4x4 with the 7.3L. I bought a 30 ft wanderer fifth wheel tow hauler. My problem is I can't get the truck over 55mph without the hauler swaying like crazy. I am about 2 inches off from being perfectly level (truck and trailer). I have played with the king pin and hitch but can't adjust anymore! I have perfect space between truck and trailer. ANy lower on 5er hitch and I will hit the bed. The truck doesn't sag at all when I put the trailer to it! If it would sag down 2 inches I would be perfectly level! I can't get any more wieght in front of the axles on trailer...

My question is would airbags do the trick...If i put air bags in the rear? I could lower the pressure to allow the truck to sag in the back abit? Or is this a bad idea? What should I do?

stoverbro · 09-11-2009, 03:37 PM

where is your hitch in relation to the rear axle.

diablo53 · 09-11-2009, 04:18 PM

I'm no towing expert, but if your F250 doesn't squat then I don't believe you have enough pin weight. My f250 sits down on the over load springs with just my 400lb atv in the bed. Have you taken your rig and trailer to the scales to see how the weight is distributed? Also tire pressure plays a big roll in stability.

bradsF250 · 09-11-2009, 04:51 PM

my f250 is a short bed so the dealer set the hitch right on maybe .5 inch over the rear axle. I carry a rhino in the trailer and it cannot go above the rear axle due to the set up of the trailer.....therefore most of the wieght is in the rear of the trailer. But I am not level on the truck and trailer. I thought if I could get more level, it would move more wieght to the king pin?

bradsF250 · 09-11-2009, 04:54 PM

my hitch is a slide hitch. It does have the dual pivoting motion.....is that dual pivot motion suppose to lock to revent trailer from leaning side to side while towing?

stoverbro · 09-11-2009, 05:17 PM

most trailers ive pulled that got squirrelly like that were because of too little tongue weight. It's exaggerated alot if your hitch is to far back too. i have a short bed superduty and my fiver hitch is several inches behind the axle. it tows fine but our camper is pretty heavy up front.

69mach1377 · 09-11-2009, 05:29 PM

Sounds like not enough tongue weight.

bradsF250 · 09-11-2009, 05:38 PM

Does it the trailer not sitting level create less tounge wieght? Or do I just need to add cynder blocks under my bed in front? How can I add more tounge wieght? Would air bags on the truck lower the rear of the truck to level the truck and trailer and add more toungue wieght?

NickKent · 09-11-2009, 09:36 PM

Go weigh the trailer at a truck stop. You don't really know what the problem is until you figure out the weights. Weigh truck and trailer together with truck front axle on a pad, truck rear axle on a pad, and trailer axles on a pad. then unhook your trailer and weight just the truck with axles of the truck on separate pads. You can figure out the tongue weight from there and see how you are doing.

**Believer45** · 09-11-2009, 09:59 PM

Keep in mind we are talking PIN weight, this is a fiver. I have seldom (well, never) heard of sway from a fiver or gooseneck before.

As has been suggested, start with you weights. Make sure to get separate axle weights for front and rear of the truck and get a weight for the trailer axles together. Weigh the truck by itself and you can do the math to figure your pin weight, whether the hitch is mounted too far back or not and maybe solve your problem. You do not want to have lower steering axle weight with the trailer hooked up than you do without it. That means your hitch is too far back and hitting bumps will actually unload your front axle making things interesting. I drove an International semi truck with a slider that I could pmove all the way to the back of the frame and did so once just for giggles. When I could not manage a left turn at a light I immediately stopped and moved it forward. I had somewhere around 30,000 lbs in a 28,000 lb refrigerated all steel trailer. Hitch placement makes a difference.

Dave / Believer45

wwf250 · 09-12-2009, 12:05 AM

Question does the trailer sway without the rhino in it as well or did I miss that point?

Have a 99-long bead 4x4 idiot who i bought from had tall tires I think there 33 or 34 so i am not level with my 28' sierra sport and i have a RZR but it rides over the trailer axles and also can just sneak a trx450r and so far so good no sway...had the rig for a year...
tires are new or they be toast and i get something sane...OH also have 1 ton leaf but my trailer settles in once hooked up?

Think you problem is a lot of tail weight and to little tongue if i was to lay a bet?
try it without the rhino?

Rick M · 09-12-2009, 08:04 AM

You have a classic case of the tail wagging the dog, it is just that the 5th wheel set up compensates until you get to 55 or above, whereas if it was a tag trailer this might start at 30-35 mph.

Don't have a 5'er, but do have a 25' gooseneck. Sounds simple and obvious that there is to much weight behind the axles and to little weight in front of the axles. It usually happens with tag trailers, but unless we start setting 5th wheels up like over the road trucks with the axles all the way to the rear it will happen with a 5th wheel if there is to much tail/to little pin weight. I believe the science involved would be physics, if the load is to balanced and the rear start to sway then it is amplified over the length of the entire rig so that even the sidewall flex of the tires start coming into play. As the tires are sideloaded in one direction they push/spring back in the other and so it goes.

As others have said, weigh the rig and you will have proper answers. When I load my goose I position the tractor so that the contacts for the overloads just touch and it works well at 65 on 4 lane as well as at 50 on a paved but rough curvey county road. The quick and simple test would be to do as you mentioned, load up enough weight, cinder blocks or whatever else is available, in the very front of the trailer to squat the truck bumper down a couple of inches more than what it normally is and give it a test drive.

mwalsh9152 · 09-12-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwf250

Question does the trailer sway without the rhino in it as well or did I miss that point?

Have a 99-long bead 4x4 idiot who i bought from had tall tires I think there 33 or 34 so i am not level with my 28' sierra sport and i have a RZR but it rides over the trailer axles and also can just sneak a trx450r and so far so good no sway...had the rig for a year...
tires are new or they be toast and i get something sane...OH also have 1 ton leaf but my trailer settles in once hooked up?

Think you problem is a lot of tail weight and to little tongue if i was to lay a bet?
try it without the rhino?

this would be my guess as well.

As for front axle weights, you need to keep a minimum of 50% of the axle rating on the ground, which is what sliding the fifth wheel affects.

I dont think that fifth wheel placement has as much to do with your problem as balance of trailer weight, the fact that your truck does not sit down at all when you put the trailer on points to this. Like stated above, go get the truck scaled with and without the trailer to find out for sure.

good luck!

fastzr1 · 09-12-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwf250

Question does the trailer sway without the rhino in it as well or did I miss that point?

This is what I was thinking too. If in fact the rhino is behind the axles I bet this is the problem. The dry weight on a new rhino is over 1100 lbs and that is a lot.

In any form, I don't think the airbags that the OP has questioned will be the correct fix. Once the axle weights have been determined, we'll know more.

468LC · 09-15-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwf250

Question does the trailer sway without the rhino in it as well or did I miss that point?

Have a 99-long bead 4x4 idiot who i bought from had tall tires I think there 33 or 34 so i am not level with my 28' sierra sport and i have a RZR but it rides over the trailer axles and also can just sneak a trx450r and so far so good no sway...had the rig for a year...
tires are new or they be toast and i get something sane...OH also have 1 ton leaf but my trailer settles in once hooked up?

Think you problem is a lot of tail weight and to little tongue if i was to lay a bet?
try it without the rhino?

Dude, it was all I could do to read that.

That being said, I won't rehash what has been spoken.

Something else that can cause a squirrely feeling is trailer tires.