Help - I don't understand Towing Capibility

[DunaticSuzyQ]

Hello Ford Friends. This may be lengthly - I'm so sorry, just frustrated. I own a 2004 F250 Diesel Crew Cab SRW 4x4. I called Ford customer service to ask how much trailer I can pull -- they sent me their towing guide. Please someone, anyone, help me understand what I can pull . . .

According to their guide and its various little astericks* and charts, I can tow somewhere between 10,400 and 14,200 lbs depending on which chart in the guide I'm reading.

There is a section titled "Weights to Check" and an equation to follow . . . .

Base Curb Weight + Cargo Weight + Passessenger Weight + Tongue Load or King Pin Weight = GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT (GVW). "The GVW must never exceed the GVWR." GVW + Loaded Trailer Weight = Gross Combination Weight (GCW). "The GCW must never exceed the GCWR."

According to the scales, my truck with full gas tank and two passengers weighs 7700 lb. According to the Safety Compliance Certification Label on the truck, my GVWR is 8800 lbs. So, the way I understand it, I can add up to 1100 lbs of passengers, cargo and tongue/king pin weight until I hit my do not exceed GVWR of 8800 lb. Correct?

With 7700 lbs to start, then add two teen kids, two dogs, and various gear in the bed of the truck, I'm at about 8300 lbs, so I'm suppose to find a trailer/fifth wheel with a 500 lb tongue/pin? Doesn't even exist . . . the same guide even indicates that for conventional trailers a proper tongue load range should be 10-15% of trailer weight (a 5,000 lb trailer should be 500 - 750 lbs) and an 11,500 fifth wheel trailer should be 15-25% for a king pin weight of 1725 - 2875 lbs.

Also, I must never exceed weight on my axles of 5200 lb front and 6084 lb rear according to the vehicle label.

So, did I purchase a diesel super duty truck, yada-yada-yada, 5 years ago based on the sales pitch that I would have a super duty hauler at the end of paying my loan (not taking into account that $4.75 gal diesel I now pay which is a whole other rant) to find that the biggest thing I can pull is perhaps a 25' foot boat and bringing kids and gear makes it iffy? Pulling a trailer with the moniker "1/2 ton trailerable" isn't even feasible according to the charts.

I do have 5,000 lb. Firestone Air Bags added (whatever that is suppose to do). Please tell me I'm reading the Ford trailer guide wrong. Please tell me, experienced trailer rv'ers and Ford professionals -- is it true?

Thank you - "Family of Four Desperate for RV Adventures"

[hiljoball]

You are reading the guide correctly. The F250 is better suited to pulling a travel trailer than pulling a 5th wheel as a TT only puts about 10% of its weight onto the truck while 5th wheel put about 20%.

For example, you can pull a TT of 11,000 lbs GVWR and it will put 1,100 lbs on to the truck hitch and have a trailer axle weight (the towing weight) of 9900 lbs.

But a 5th wheel of 11,000 gvrw would put 2,200 lbs of pin weight onto the truck and have a trailer axle weight (towing weight) of 8,800 lbs. But the 2,200 would put your truck over its GVWR.

[Smiley1]

I have loaded my 8800lb GVW rated truck to the tune of 10200lbs with no ill effects. In fact, that is the first time it lowered the back end level with the front. That was over 2k lbs of concrete I hauled to the dump. Truck had not issues at all.

[taboky]

You are reading and understanding correctly. However, I had an '04 F250 crewcab SB 6.0 with airbags in the rear. Towed a Raptor 5th wheel, 15k GVW and around 3k pin weight. Overloaded according to the door sticker? Oh ya! Overweight on the axle or tire ratings? Nope. Never had a problem towing the rig. I did have over 100k miles on it, and with the 6.0, just wasn't comfortable on long trips, engine wise. That is the only reason I bought a new truck. Obviously since I was getting a new one, I opted for the F350 DRW. Now that is a night and day difference in towing.

[SmokeyWren]

I do have 5,000 lb. Firestone Air Bags added (whatever that is suppose to do).

It's supposed to raise the rear end of your overloaded pickup so the headlights don't point at the stars at night. Yes, you need them if you plan to do any towing at night.

Please tell me I'm reading the Ford trailer guide wrong. Please tell me, experienced trailer rv'ers and Ford professionals -- is it true?

You're reading it right. But you need a bit more info.

The '99-'04 F-250 and F-350 SRW with identical options are almost identical when equipped with the same tires that were standard on the F-350 SRW and optional on the F-250. I have looked and looked and looked, and as far as I can tell there is no engineering or mechanical reason for them to have a different GVWR.

So ignore that 8,800 GVWR and assume you have 9,900 GVWR. Now, when you have a pickup loaded to 8,300 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, you have a hitch weight capacity of up to 1,600 pounds. That's enough to safely handle a bumper-pull travel trailer that grosses up to around 12,000 pounds. Or if you insist on a fifth-wheel RV, then get one with a GVWR not more than about 9,000 pounds.

Yes, they make them. My 26' Keystone Sprinter with one big slide grosses 8,000 pounds. We have traveled with two adults and two tweenager grandkids a few times. Yes, it's crowded, but until I can afford to trade up to a Dooley that's what I have.

But for two full-grown teenagers, I'd probably opt for a slightly bigger tag trailer, probably a 30' "bunkhouse" model with a GVWR of about 10,000 pounds. With a Hensley Arrow hitch, the tag will tow as good as a 5er. And if you're buying a new trailer, a tag trailer plus Hensley Arrow hitch will cost about the same as a comparable-quality 5er plus a Reese 16k 5er hitch.

We made one trip from west Texas to near West Point in New York while grossing 9,620 on the 4 pickup tires. Plus another 6,340 on the 4 trailer tires. No problems at all. And I don't have air bags, but I don't tow at night, either.

If you also need to haul toys a the same time, then haul them in a second trailer behind the 5er. I often tow a 10' golf car trailer behind my 5er with no problems. But towing double trailers is probably not allowed unless the first trailer is a 5er or gooseneck.

They make tag toy haulers, but remember you need to keep the weight down to not more than about 10k. For examole, here's a Weekend Warrior with two double beds and a GVWR of 9,000 pounds. http://www.a1warriortrailers.com/Flo...e-flpln-lg.gif

[JW350]

Are you looking for a conventional RV type or toy hauler type trailer? The conventional types are generally lighter than toy haulers and are not adversely affected by loading heavy toys in them.

You'll be fine if you keep the trailer weight within reason, say approx 13K.

Load up, go camping, and enjoy your rig!

[DunaticSuzyQ]

Yes - we are looking for a toyhauler. We sold our 29' pull toyhauler because that length liked to sway on occasion (even with a sway controller.) We had assumed we would go up to a small 5vr for better tow, but I won't now -- the numbers are too close for my comfort.

So I guess my choice is to go down in size to the "1/2 ton towable" 24' pull toyhauler (perhaps I'll try a Hensley arrow this time) or upgrade to a new F350 or 450. Unfortunately, I'm really mad at Ford right now and don't now if I can stomach buying another.

I was excited because my truck is almost paid for (no more $615/month payment ) I justified in mind that I would keep driving the truck as my daily driver with it's crappy 14 mpg until paid for, then buy a vehicle with better mpg and park the truck for use only when towing. The sales pitch was buy the diesel -- it's more money, but you get better mpg than the gasser, diesel is cheaper than gas (ha-ha) and when you finish paying for it it still has a whole lot of miles left on it and it's a Super Duty towing machine. All of which, apparently, are untrue. Shame on me.

Well, thanks for your insights. Want to buy a used truck?

[OMCUSNR]

Originally Posted by DunaticSuzyQ

Yes - we are looking for a toyhauler. We sold our 29' pull toyhauler because that length liked to sway on occasion (even with a sway controller.) We had assumed we would go up to a small 5vr for better tow, but I won't now -- the numbers are too close for my comfort.

So I guess my choice is to go down in size to the "1/2 ton towable" 24' pull toyhauler (perhaps I'll try a Hensley arrow this time) or upgrade to a new F350 or 450. Unfortunately, I'm really mad at Ford right now and don't now if I can stomach buying another.

I was excited because my truck is almost paid for (no more $615/month payment ) I justified in mind that I would keep driving the truck as my daily driver with it's crappy 14 mpg until paid for, then buy a vehicle with better mpg and park the truck for use only when towing. The sales pitch was buy the diesel -- it's more money, but you get better mpg than the gasser, diesel is cheaper than gas (ha-ha) and when you finish paying for it it still has a whole lot of miles left on it and it's a Super Duty towing machine. All of which, apparently, are untrue. Shame on me.

Well, thanks for your insights. Want to buy a used truck?

Go back to the 29 to 30' tag toy hauler & get the hensley hitch. Its the cheapest solution and should work VERY well for you.

You're definately not the only one to listen to a truck or trailer sales pitch & hear sorta what you want to hear. There are many, many under trucked RVers out there.

OMC

[SmokeyWren]

We sold our 29' pull toyhauler because that length liked to sway on occasion (even with a sway controller.)

That's because you had a relatively cheap sway controller/hitch. TANSTAAFL! Pay the big bucks for a Hensley Arrow and you'll be in heaven. The name of their website is NoSway.com, and that's what you get if you hook it up right.

Hensley Ron is a sponsor of TheDieselStop. Contact him and beg and plead for the super-duper good deal for folks on TheDieselstop, and maybe he'll fix you up.
Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com - View Profile: Hensley Ron

[Hensley Ron]

And remember he's easily bribed with double fudge brownies.

[DonWarkentin]

Take 500 lbs of gear (tools, water jugs, fuel containers, suitcases, shovels, spare parts, hoses, bicycles, quads, etc) out of the back of the truck and put it into the toyhauler. Now your truck gvw is down to 7800 lbs, leaving room for a 10000 lb ball hitch toyhauler with 1000 lb hitch weight.

[DonWarkentin]

I recommend that you take 500 lbs of gear out of the back of the truck and put it into the toyhauler. Then you will have an extra 500lbs for the hitch weight, and you should be able to handle a 10000 lb ball hitch toyhauler with a good quality anti sway hitch.