Help me decide which 5th Wheel to buy - Diesel Forum

Scottz · 01-03-2007, 04:20 AM

I'm looking at a couple used 5th wheels and need some advice from the experts.

The first is a 2002 Keystone Cougar 276 which I can pick up for about $17,500 including a 20k hitch installed in my truck.

The second is a 2001 Cedar Creek 28 which I can pick up for about $18,900, also including a 20k hitch.

My impressions:
-We like the floor plan of the Cougar better and it includes two easy chairs, the Cedar Creek does not. This is not a deal killer, both trailers are very nice.

-The Cedar Creek is a 4-season trailer with enclosed basement and heated tanks, the Cougar is not.

-The Cedar Creek has 16" wheels and seems to have better ground clearance.

-The Cedar Creek has electric rear jacks and a hydraulic slide, the Cougar has manual rear jacks and electric slide.

-The Cougar seems to have more basement storage room than the Cedar Creek

-Overall the Cedar Creek appears to be a better build trailer, but not sure with my inexperience.

This will be my first shot at a 5th Wheel although I have owned a couple pull trailers before.

What do you guys think? Any comments, advice is appreciated.

Scottz · 01-03-2007, 04:27 AM

Here is another option. Just looked at a 2003 Forest River Wildcat 27RL. It is an extremely nice unit, as good or better than when it came from the factory. It has about 6k total miles on it and has always been garaged. The owner has added numerous upgrades like satellite TV system (I’d need my own receiver & subscription), 24” TV, audio system with several speakers, Flexsteel recliners, two water filters, etc. However, I think it is priced much too high at $22,500. My problem is I don’t know which trailer models are high quality and which to avoid.

KF6ZVT · 01-03-2007, 01:05 PM

Have you checked out the forums on some of the RV sites. A couple are:

http://irv2.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=8076099152

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...s/forum/24.cfm

I have found some very candid owner information regarding problems and construction issues on these sites.

Also check the manufacturer's sites to determine construction materials, and construction specifications.

FloridaEd · 01-03-2007, 02:47 PM

I came within an inch of buying a Cedar Creek 5'ver in 2001, but they only had the ones with a dining booth in stock and Mama wanted a dining table, so we pull a Montana. Ours has the 4 season insulation and we would have been in deep doo-doo without it...a bunch of times. Here's some things to consider:

1. Open length between the living room slide and the rear end. The chairs that come with these units are not very good. A lot of guys replace them with Lazy Boy chairs and you need enough room for a good chair to fit with the slide closed. I suspect the reason the Cedar Creek doesn't have chairs is 'cause the owner put good Lazy Boys in it and he's keeping them.

2. If the kitchen in in the rear, you can expect "stuff" to get thrown everywhere on rough roads. Momma will bring this to your attention, repeatedly, if you tow a lot.

3. The higher the TV is mounted, the better. If you do a lot of camping/travelling, you will want a satellite dish. And you will want to stretch out in that Lazy Boy....and the higher the TV, the easier to watch the game. I'm speaking from experience here.

The lengths of both are IMO close to perfect. You can tow them easily and fit in just about all campgrounds....save some national forests. I'm not aware of any significant benefit one way or the other between hydraulic and electric slides. Mine are hydraulic and they are coupled so I have to run out both slides even though I only need to get to stuff in one slide....but it's never been problem.

For the difference in price, my choice would be the Cedar Creek..I do believe it is an upgrade from the other one.

Florida Ed

Scottz · 01-04-2007, 01:17 AM

Good advice, thanks. Keep the comments coming.

I think both of the units I talked about are priced too high (dealers). I have the advantage of time and will be paying cash, so I am going to take my time and keep looking.

The guys on rv.net have suggested I look at wholesalers and consider a new unit for little more than what these used ones cost.

CaptRon · 01-04-2007, 10:34 AM

We much prefer the rear kitchen and the cook is the first to let me know that. Our first 5th wheel never did any damage but this Newmar will break a drinking glass or two. We've learned how to prevent that from happening and so it's really a non issue. We tow alot, and last month she left a half a cup of coffee sitting on the counter. After 100 miles she remembered and it was still sitting there and hadn't spilled a drop. We've also found half drank cans of Coke sitting on the counter of our first RK 5th wheel on several occassions.

Definately consider the extra insulation as it will also work in the summer too.

One note about slides, I always check to see if the camper is livable with all the slides in. We overnight in truck stops and rarely extend the slides while enroute. Our friends have a Montana w/4 slides and front living room. With the slides in they have to go out the front door and in the back door to get to the bedroom/bathroom.

Your quest for a 20K hitch for the size camper that you intend to buy is a little overkill. Just extra expense and weight in my book. I have a 16K Drawtite 4X to pull my 14.5K Newmar. I bought it from a guy at a campground for $200...and he changed out the rails since the DT wouldn't fit my rails.

Good Luck,
Capt Ron

FloridaEd · 01-04-2007, 04:00 PM

Sorry...I thought you were going to choose between one of these two trailers.

NOW...........

If I were buying today, I'd consider buying an 8-12 year old Avion (or equivalent Country series....Holiday Rambler, etc) with just a living room slide. I'd try to stay no longer than 32 feet. I prefer the older Avions with Mor-Ryde (rubber elastomeric) springs on the axles. Trailers with this suspension are very hard to come by today.

Additionally, the older Avions (and other like them) had real wood cabinets all through the rig. IMHO, these older units were built better than the new ones.....before two or three companies bought out all the brand names and started taking costs out of the manufacturing process. Avion went out of business (bought out actually) because their manufacturing expenses were just too high.

The very choicest used trailer IMO would be an Avion "Whale"....5th wheel's which were built in the late 80's and early 90's...full aluminum skin (painted gray in most cases)that will last longer than either of us, I believe. They were called "Whales" becuase they had a round roof (never leak) and resembled a Sperm Whale. You would need a dually to haul this heavily built trailer. Unfortunately, these are very hard to come by, especially a clean one.

These older 1-slide 5'vers, if you can find a clean one, will last you a long time, possibly you will have to replace some appliances...but you can often get a real good deal on them. When I bought my Montana in Spring '02, the dealer NE of Ocala, FL, was loaded with used older trailers like this. In retrospect, I should have saved myself 15-20 grand and bought one. Even replacing the appliances, I'd still be 10-15 grand ahead and have a better trailer than is built today.

Good luck with whatever you decide. You ought to start lurking at TraderOnLine in the RV section and see what pops up around the country.

Florida Ed

jetskier · 01-04-2007, 07:57 PM

I shopped around and the Wildcat is a quality unit for what I wanted in a trailer. It is not the best, but it has the heated basement for year round camping. Mine has a huge amount of storage and 16" wheels/6000# axles. I picked the floorplan because it has quad bunks for the kids. The only issues thus far have been minor (leaky water pump connection, scratched trim around skylight and a malfunctioning radio/DVD unit).

It also sits plenty tall for the SD to tow. I had to raise my hitch and lower the pin box to get close to level since the 16" wheel package raised it a few inches over the 15" setup. If you go with the 'Cat, you need to make sure it is a west coast model. I bought new from Adventure RV in Cheyenne, WY at near wholesale.

Pappy19 · 01-04-2007, 10:15 PM

I've been full timing for a while and had a Carriage 40' for about 5 years. Stay away from Carriage; lots of money for a poorly made product IMHO. My next one will be an Alfa. Most standard equipment and best warranty for the money. Every Alfa owner I have talked with has good things to say.

96STROKE · 01-04-2007, 10:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've been full timing for a while and had a Carriage 40' for about 5 years. Stay away from Carriage; lots of money for a poorly made product IMHO. My next one will be an Alfa. Most standard equipment and best warranty for the money. Every Alfa owner I have talked with has good things to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have heard the exact oppisite. Bad about alfa and good about carriage.

No matter what you buy, they are all poor quality compaired to the auto industry. If you know that going into it, you will much happier with your RV.

ScottZ,

I would recomend the 16" wheels if you are going to boondock at all, also, IMHO, I think the floor plan that you like best is the one you should go with, both trailers are fine units, but understand that you will have to most likely do some work on either one you choose at some time, sooner or later.

whiskyrunner · 01-04-2007, 10:32 PM

We also looked a Cougar, but,,, we want to also put a hitch for the four wheel trailer on it, it was Keystone's manuf. to NOT put a hitch of there frame, that would tell me it is not the strong of a frame and would lead to a lot of flexing, Then we also looked a Cedar Creek very nice and would have bought it,on the way home we stopped and looked at the Fleetwood/Terry dealer and fo and awesome deal on a 36'Quantum, less money than the Cedar, and has 4 slides with the front living room, over the hitch.

Scottz · 01-07-2007, 03:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you go with the 'Cat, you need to make sure it is a west coast model. I bought new from Adventure RV in Cheyenne, WY at near wholesale.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the advantage of the Wildcat west coast model? What are the differences between west and east cost models?

I am looking seriously at a 2007 Wildcat 29RLBS.

rws444psd · 01-07-2007, 06:13 PM

we been lookinn to, i like the komforts, holiday rambler, but the alpha is really nice, wish they made a 27ft one.

firesoutmatt · 01-07-2007, 09:04 PM

I've had 3 of them and the Alfa is far the best one made. It doesn't have that cheap feel about them. If your near CA. its worth the trip to see them made at the factory

jetskier · 01-08-2007, 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you go with the 'Cat, you need to make sure it is a west coast model. I bought new from Adventure RV in Cheyenne, WY at near wholesale.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the advantage of the Wildcat west coast model? What are the differences between west and east cost models?

I am looking seriously at a 2007 Wildcat 29RLBS.

[/ QUOTE ]

West coast:
1) can get 16" wheels (ST235/80r16D rated at 3250# @ 65psi) w/ 6000# axles as option. The 15" is only a 225/75r15D (2540# @ 65psi) and 5200# axles.
2) larger corner shower with skylight for more head room.
3) factory installed generator (I think the east coast have it by now)
4) built in Dallas, OR rather than Indiana.
5) different bathroom layout - more open.

you might want to visit this forum exclusive to Wildcats. It has a lot of info specific to the line.