I almost lost my 5th wheel trailer today - Diesel Forum

awstas · 06-20-2006, 12:28 AM

Well, I came close to seeing my 5th wheel trailer brake loose. I'm currently on vacation, I left Salt Lake City and have arrived in Denver. On my when to denver, I stated getting trailer disconnected messages from the ford brake controller. As I came down I70 over the two steep (10600 Feet and 11200 Feet) passes, I stated getting trailer fault messgaes. I checked the cables and everything was pluged in. When I finally parked in the campground I started to unhook the trailer, I saw a bolt laying in the bed of the truck. This is when the uneasy feeling starts. I checked the hitch but could not find any missing bolts. When I looked at the 5th wheel king pin, I noticed one size was lower than the other. My trailer has the Morye king pin installed on it. I looked but you can't see the inside workings of the hitch. As I looked around, I saw two nuts laying in the back side of the hitch. I saw what looked like two spaces that where missing bolts, a third nut about to come off and a four that looked to still be in tack. After looking at the bolts, I see where the third bolt threads have been rounded off. So, I'm off tomorrow to find four replacement bolts of the correct grade so I can put the king pin back together. It's scary to think that two bolts where holding a 14k trailer to the hitch while doing 6 and 8% grades. Good times. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img]

JoeMesquite · 06-20-2006, 12:36 AM

Wow!! You are indeed one lucky fellow. Glad you did not lose the trailer.

Joe

haul_n_horses2 · 06-20-2006, 06:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On my when to denver, I stated getting trailer disconnected messages from the ford brake controller. As I came down I70 over the two steep (10600 Feet and 11200 Feet) passes, I stated getting trailer fault messgaes................................... It's scary to think that two bolts where holding a 14k trailer to the hitch while doing 6 and 8% grades. Good times. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]What will those Ford engineers think of next. Now their TowCommand system monitors the integrity of your hitch! All those people getting erroneous trailer disconnected messages better check their hitches. LOL. Reminds me of the stopped watch be correct two times a day.

hypoxia · 06-20-2006, 08:56 AM

I wonder if your ground wire is disconnected and you are getting your ground through the king pin. I can't think of any other reason for the trailer disconnected messages.

6SPDMANUAL · 06-20-2006, 08:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I came close to seeing my 5th wheel trailer brake loose. I'm currently on vacation, I left Salt Lake City and have arrived in Denver. On my when to denver, I stated getting trailer disconnected messages from the ford brake controller. As I came down I70 over the two steep (10600 Feet and 11200 Feet) passes, I stated getting trailer fault messgaes. I checked the cables and everything was pluged in. When I finally parked in the campground I started to unhook the trailer, I saw a bolt laying in the bed of the truck. This is when the uneasy feeling starts. I checked the hitch but could not find any missing bolts. When I looked at the 5th wheel king pin, I noticed one size was lower than the other. My trailer has the Morye king pin installed on it. I looked but you can't see the inside workings of the hitch. As I looked around, I saw two nuts laying in the back side of the hitch. I saw what looked like two spaces that where missing bolts, a third nut about to come off and a four that looked to still be in tack. After looking at the bolts, I see where the third bolt threads have been rounded off. So, I'm off tomorrow to find four replacement bolts of the correct grade so I can put the king pin back together. It's scary to think that two bolts where holding a 14k trailer to the hitch while doing 6 and 8% grades. Good times. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

someone bigger than us all was looking out for you that day. sending signals to your box to make you check (too bad you missed it then)

i simialr experiance towing a truck via a tow-bar system,... when i got to my destination,... the chains had worked loose and the bar "bumper" managed to wedge into the bumper of the vehicle in tow, and that was all that was holding it,...on one side nonetheless.
glad your ok.

crzybowhntr · 06-20-2006, 11:20 AM

Maybe it was getting a signal because there was a good bit of vibration from the king pin box not being as tight as it should?

FatDog · 06-20-2006, 11:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
... stated getting trailer disconnected messages from the ford brake controller. ...

[/ QUOTE ]
with the integrated controller, do you get that same message if the trailer is not hooked up but you have plugged in the electrical?
I often plug the trailer into my truck without hitching it up when i am working on the trailer in storage. If that is the case, then it looks like the controller is looking for continuity at the hitch?
Irregardless though, you win the Lucky Guy of the Month Award !

Black05 · 06-20-2006, 04:34 PM

If the wiring is properly grounded and does not use the trailer hitch/ball as a ground source, then just plugging the trailer wiring connector in should result in no fault showing on the brake controller, even with the trailer not connected to the ball hitch.

6SPDMANUAL · 06-21-2006, 10:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If the wiring is properly grounded and does not use the trailer hitch/ball as a ground source, then just plugging the trailer wiring connector in should result in no fault showing on the brake controller, even with the trailer not connected to the ball hitch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this same thing too, but did not want to say anything until i tried it. i wne t home hooked up 7 pin plug to factory plug on truck, with the trailer not touching, and no fault errors. just like it was fully hooked up. at least thats how mine works.

haul_n_horses2 · 06-21-2006, 12:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the wiring is properly grounded and does not use the trailer hitch/ball as a ground source, then just plugging the trailer wiring connector in should result in no fault showing on the brake controller, even with the trailer not connected to the ball hitch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this same thing too, but did not want to say anything until i tried it. i wne t home hooked up 7 pin plug to factory plug on truck, with the trailer not touching, and no fault errors. just like it was fully hooked up. at least thats how mine works.

[/ QUOTE ]That was the point of my sarcastic reply. He really has two problems: His hitch and a brake controller that is sending faulty information. If you search this forum you will find many folks that have had spurious brake fault warnings from the Ford TowCommand unit. It was not an option for me but if I were in the market, I would just get a BrakeSmart. No issues with Electric over hydraulic, activates the brakes on the trailer even when going at slow speeds etc.

Black05 · 06-21-2006, 12:50 PM

The TBC controllers built post March of 2005 do apply braking pressure at all speeds (I got my earlier TBC replaced by Ford -- the new TBC works flawlessly). I do not know whether this newer unit will work with electric over hydraulic, but it functions just like a Prodigy, DrawTite, or others, so I presume that it would work. The trailer fault message is not a bad feature -- most posts that I have seen on this site reported that the trailer had some sort of wiring fault causing the TBC fault message.

6SPDMANUAL · 06-21-2006, 07:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the wiring is properly grounded and does not use the trailer hitch/ball as a ground source, then just plugging the trailer wiring connector in should result in no fault showing on the brake controller, even with the trailer not connected to the ball hitch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this same thing too, but did not want to say anything until i tried it. i wne t home hooked up 7 pin plug to factory plug on truck, with the trailer not touching, and no fault errors. just like it was fully hooked up. at least thats how mine works.

[/ QUOTE ]That was the point of my sarcastic reply. He really has two problems: His hitch and a brake controller that is sending faulty information. If you search this forum you will find many folks that have had spurious brake fault warnings from the Ford TowCommand unit. It was not an option for me but if I were in the market, I would just get a BrakeSmart. No issues with Electric over hydraulic, activates the brakes on the trailer even when going at slow speeds etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, i misinterpretted your post. but it figures the factory one would be acting up. i have not been on a long trip yet, but so far for me its weak and i am not impressed.

short_stuff · 06-21-2006, 08:05 PM

Makes my sphincter muscle clam up real tight! Would a break-away 5th wheel stop on its own e-brake on a downhill ride?

awstas · 06-21-2006, 10:05 PM

Well, The hitch is back together now. I did get a good education in bolt grades and reading the grade marks. NAPA sold me grade 5 bolt even though I show them the grade eight bolts. I went ahead and replace all four bolts, and nuts just to be safe. I agree with some of the posts that I have two seperate problems. I did find that the negative battery cable is corroded(spelling?). So, I have cleaned that. If there is a ground problem somewhere else, I have not found it yet. I only got the trailer fault messages when moving, so I will find out shortly if I still have a problem. I still have about 1000 miles left in my 6500 mile /3 week trip. Anthony

On a side note, there is no way that the brake away brakes would ever stop the trailer on those passes. Some car or truck would be the one stopping the trailer. I watch one semi smoke his brakes on the down side on the pass. My trailer would not had a chance.

FloridaEd · 06-23-2006, 08:28 PM

I made that same trip, ONCE, going from Denver to Salt Lake. Not again. We're going to Salt Lake in September, but I'm gonna' run up to Wyoming and run west to SLC. I do not like those two passes. I went down both of them with my truck in 2nd gear, hopping on and off the brakes to stay in the 34-45 MPH range, and folks with Colorado tags passing me....blowing their horns and flipping me the bird.

I look at my hitch when we start our trips, but I've never check the king pin assembly.....until now.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Florida Ed