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Old 12-10-2011, 07:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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New 5th wheel hitch

So someone tell me that I'm wrong but with the new 2012 factory 5th wheel prep option installed in the bed already, the same hitch that was $500 is now $1600 ??? give me a break!!
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2012 F-350 6.7 Scorpion Lariat 4x4 CC DRW FX4 in Sterling Grey

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'02 F-350 Lariat 4x4 CC SB 7.3/auto 245k. Time to step up! Sold
'99 F-350 XLT 4x4 CC DRW 7.3/6spd.156k. Tired of shift'n
'92 F-350 XLT Lariat 4x4 CC LB 460/auto. son rolled it!
'85 GMC Sierra 4x4 CC Dually 6.2/auto. too slow!
'78 F-250 XLT Lariat 4x4 SC LB. bought new, got married, had kids, needed 4 doors!
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I see a 20k head for $750, old style. The new head is 25K and quick removal....~$1500 if you look around.... then again a F350 Lariat in 2000 was MSRP of $33800, now a comparable is $44800. Just sigh.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Its going to be cheaper to put the gooseneck conversion on the toy box at only $500. Anyone see a problem doing this??
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2012 F-350 6.7 Scorpion Lariat 4x4 CC DRW FX4 in Sterling Grey

The past:
'02 F-350 Lariat 4x4 CC SB 7.3/auto 245k. Time to step up! Sold
'99 F-350 XLT 4x4 CC DRW 7.3/6spd.156k. Tired of shift'n
'92 F-350 XLT Lariat 4x4 CC LB 460/auto. son rolled it!
'85 GMC Sierra 4x4 CC Dually 6.2/auto. too slow!
'78 F-250 XLT Lariat 4x4 SC LB. bought new, got married, had kids, needed 4 doors!
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I put a B&W hide a ball in and bought the 5th wheel companion rated at 25K to go with it and was ony into it $1000. And it all comes out and there are no rails in the bed
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I put a B&W hide a ball in and bought the 5th wheel companion rated at 25K to go with it and was ony into it $1000. And it all comes out and there are no rails in the bed
Thats what I was going to do in my 02 but decided to order a 2012 drw with the fifth wheel/gooseneck prep factory installed. had I known that the Reese hitch was the only one that fits and they jacked the price on hitch from $500 to $1600 I would have just not gone with that option and just done a B&W system. The ford option has DOUBLED the price of the hitch system as a whole...just stupid!
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2012 F-350 6.7 Scorpion Lariat 4x4 CC DRW FX4 in Sterling Grey

The past:
'02 F-350 Lariat 4x4 CC SB 7.3/auto 245k. Time to step up! Sold
'99 F-350 XLT 4x4 CC DRW 7.3/6spd.156k. Tired of shift'n
'92 F-350 XLT Lariat 4x4 CC LB 460/auto. son rolled it!
'85 GMC Sierra 4x4 CC Dually 6.2/auto. too slow!
'78 F-250 XLT Lariat 4x4 SC LB. bought new, got married, had kids, needed 4 doors!
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Its going to be cheaper to put the gooseneck conversion on the toy box at only $500. Anyone see a problem doing this??
There have been some issues with stress on the pinbox, even breaking welds, converting from 5er to goose.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:10 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TBS-POPS View Post
The ford option has DOUBLED the price of the hitch system as a whole...just stupid!
That's how it always works. It's always cheaper to add features in the aftermarket, whether it's a CD changer or a turbocharger. In the latter case you might want to get one from the dealer since it will be covered by powertrain warranty. In the former case you're a fool to get it with the vehicle unless maybe it has one of those oval pockets. But for a hitch... well, looks like you did the math a little after the fact
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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There have been some issues with stress on the pinbox, even breaking welds, converting from 5er to goose.
Can you name one, (when and where)? Nobody ever can year in and year out. I've hauled my shop-fabricated gooseneck all over the western states for 20+ years, there's a pic of the coupler somewhere in my Webshots. If there was a problem with them I doubt Trailer Life would have featured all the different conversion brands a few months back. The stress point, if there is one, is at the top of the coupler which is always well gusseted by the mfgrs like this Colibert.
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Last edited by LMJD; 12-13-2011 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'll probably regret weighing in on this one because I CAN'T personally cite a case of a goose conversion causing frame breakage. That having been said I wouldn't do it unless the trailer frame is built for it -unlikely- or has been properly modified. To give you an example of how the increased vertical tongue length increases stresses (lateral/longitudinal) just look at the tow ratings for a B&W goosneck ball hitch. As a ball its 30,000 lbs. When you put the 5th wheel conversion (companion) on it, it goes down to 18,000 lbs. because of the increased torsional forces placed upon the sub-structure by the increased leverage (approx. 16"). This is exactly what your doing to your trailer frame with the goose converter, and I assure you the trailer frame isn't built anywhere as stout at the aforementioned hitch. I've been a heavy duty fabricator and welder (mostly farm implements/equipment) for most of my adult life (I'm 47) and have a pretty good background in things like stresses, levers and structural geometery and thats what I'm basing my opinion on. At minimum all four corners of the pin box frame need to be heavily gusseted and most 5th wheel travel trailers aren't gusseted at all.Yes, a lot of people have gotten away with it without a catastrophic failure, but I guarantee you that if two identical trailers were failure mode tested on a load dynomometer, the trailer frame with the gooseneck conversion would fail first every time. Its basic physics. Also, if you consult with the various 5th wheel manufacturers, the vast majority of them would advise you not to convert and would also caution of voiding the warranty in the event of a structural type failure. Thats my $.02 As far as the converters themselves, every one I've seen is quite stout. If the trailer frame were built as well, I wouldn't be doing all this typing. -- P.S. The stress point in question here - and yes there most definitely IS one- is where the pin box attaches to the trailer frame, it has nothing to do with the juncture of the pin box and the converter.
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Last edited by PerryB; 12-13-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LMJD View Post
Can you name one, (when and where)? Nobody ever can year in and year out. I've hauled my shop-fabricated gooseneck all over the western states for 20+ years, there's a pic of the coupler somewhere in my Webshots. If there was a problem with them I doubt Trailer Life would have featured all the different conversion brands a few months back. The stress point, if there is one, is at the top of the coupler which is always well gusseted by the mfgrs like this Colibert.
I found where a couple people stated they were told (by the frame manufacturer) that the converter caused the problem. I also found the article that claims that there is currently (as of August) only one converter that is accepted and would not void the warranty. Fifth Wheelin': August 2011
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well I went to the local RV hitch shop today that I have delt with in the past and here is what we came up with.
For the Ford installed hitch;
Ball kit for gooseneck, $215
5th wheel hitch 18k, $1200
Ford 5th wheel prep $307
Total $1722

Aftermarket install
B&W underbed kit installed $500
Gooseneck ball for B&W $165
Companion 5th for B&W $950
Total $1615

I dont feel so bad now, Its only about a $100 difference.
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2012 F-350 6.7 Scorpion Lariat 4x4 CC DRW FX4 in Sterling Grey

The past:
'02 F-350 Lariat 4x4 CC SB 7.3/auto 245k. Time to step up! Sold
'99 F-350 XLT 4x4 CC DRW 7.3/6spd.156k. Tired of shift'n
'92 F-350 XLT Lariat 4x4 CC LB 460/auto. son rolled it!
'85 GMC Sierra 4x4 CC Dually 6.2/auto. too slow!
'78 F-250 XLT Lariat 4x4 SC LB. bought new, got married, had kids, needed 4 doors!
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Old 12-14-2011, 04:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I found where a couple people stated they were told (by the frame manufacturer) that the converter caused the problem.
That proves nothing. Of COURSE that's what they would say. You don't think they'd say "our frame sucks" do you?

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I also found the article that claims that there is currently (as of August) only one converter that is accepted and would not void the warranty. Fifth Wheelin': August 2011
If they want to void the warranty they're going to have to deliver specifications that prove that the adapter doesn't meet, otherwise you're protected by the Magnuson-Moss warranty act which states that no one may void your warranty for use of a compatible product.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Just bought a new 34 ft 5th wheel in August and was told a conversion would void my frame warranty also
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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There is absolutely NO way you would be able to hide behind Magnuson-Moss in this situation. Were not talking about a compatible replacement parts issue here. Were talking about physical alteration. And yes, most RV trailer frames DO suck. They are made to the absolute minimum of structural requirements and the prep/weld quality is notoriously poor. --- I really wish the various trailer industries would get together and standardize on a hitch platform. I have absolutely nothing against goosenecks, in fact I actually prefer the design because of the ease of removal. One quick latch and the ball is out -- smooth bed. They're also usually quite a bit less expensive and the install is relatively easy. The RV industry would have to step up to the plate and actually learn how to build structural components. Look at a gooseneck stock trailer or equipment hauler and you'll see how they should be built. Final question. Can anybody tell me why a 5th doesn't require safety chains and a goose does? I'm not using this as a case for the 5th, it just seems rather inconsistent. And from the government,no less.
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Last edited by PerryB; 12-14-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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--------------<pin box
[]\
[] \<stress point
[]
[]
[]
O<gooseneck ball
Quote:
At minimum all four corners of the pin box frame need to be heavily gusseted and most 5th wheel travel trailers aren't gusseted at all.
You don't agree that the only stress point that's increased when you lengthen the distance from pin box to ball is as shown above? Seems like a simple leverage principle to me and doesn't effect the box to frame area. And yes, I also wasted the better part of my life away fabbing and welding cracked semi frames, dozer components, etc, a lot of which guys lives depended on the quality of the welding/fab job I did. Don't know about Chico, but most of the 5th wheel owners in this area also have horse/stock trailers so from what I see about 70% of them are converted to goosenecks and I've yet to hear of a failure locally.
Quote:
Final question. Can anybody tell me why a 5th doesn't require safety chains and a goose does? I'm not using this as a case for the 5th, it just seems rather inconsistent.
Yea, I agree. This has nothing to do with the safety chain issue, but I knew two guys years ago that didn't make sure their 5th wheels were latched and bashed in their bed top edges---both brand new Dodge diesels. To me a gooseneck's pretty foolproof. Even unlatched it would take a land mine to bounce any of mine off the ball.
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Last edited by LMJD; 12-14-2011 at 10:45 AM.
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