Opinion? Weld or bolt

[TLG]

When I traded my 2005 F250 last week, I left the 5th wheel rails in the truck. The dealer that installed them last year welded the brackets on the frame. I called a closer dealer today about installing rails in the new truck, and they said they would never weld to the frame. The instructions that came with the hitch said either method was acceptable. Any opinions about what to do on a 2008?

[Hook'em Horns!]

Always bolt on, welding could alter the tensile strength of the frame.

[colonelaberilla]

The frame should be A36 steel which is mild steel. You can weld to mild steel without upsetting it. I myself would bolt it on.

[newtodieseling]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TLG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I traded my 2005 F250 last week, I left the 5th wheel rails in the truck. The dealer that installed them last year welded the brackets on the frame. I called a closer dealer today about installing rails in the new truck, and they said they would never weld to the frame. The instructions that came with the hitch said either method was acceptable. Any opinions about what to do on a 2008? </div></div>
If I recall, I'll have to go check, my owner's manual somewhere stated to never weld the frame. When we installed a B&W gooseneck in my brother's F250 the install manual for that also stated to never weld to the frame. As someone else posted, it could compromise the strength of the frame.

[lectricman52]

Welded in my 95 than my 03, never a problem if done correctly.

[bigdawgkp]

Sure would not want to FRY all of the electronics on a $50,000
truck by welding on it if I did not have to take the risk. I would bolt

[Phillipmc1268]

Frames are not mild steel. To have a frame of mild steel strong enough it would be so heavy as to be impractical. Welding with the correct electrode is required to keep the frame from cracking next to the weld due to hydrogen embrittlement. The following is the reply to an email I sent a professional certified weldor about welding some brackets on a frame:

"I don't claim to know everything, but I'll try if I can to at least give you a tip if you don't already know it.

First are you talking about welding a medium carbon steel or actually a high carbon steel.
If you are talking about medium carbon and using the flux core MIG wire it is the same as Stick and there is no need for shielding gas.
I would use the 7018 low hydrogen wire either way and especially if it is a high carbon steel.
It will be harder to do out of position and cover it if possible with an asbestos substitute blanket for slow cooling. If it is going to take multiple passes maintain an interpass temperature (250 to 300 degs,) and not let it cool completely before the next pass.
Either way the flux will shield the hot weld and cracking while cooling will be your biggest concern.
Preheat the area around the weld to around 300 degs. If it's a large area do it to within about 10" around the joint to keep it from drawing away the heat too quickly. The higher the carbon content in the material the more critical it is. You probably already know that.
This is the only thing I can tell you off hand. If this isn't enough to help I can look things up in more details with more information about the materials involved."

I'd use bolts.

[DIESELDUTTON]

When I bought my camper, I had them install the hitch since it was included in the deal (yeah, sure it was) they welded the brackets on the frame, which I thought was odd, so I question the installer and he said on my truck it is ok to weld on the frame, I trusted the guys and they install alot of hitches, some welded some bolted.

I dont know if it is right or wrong, but I have not had any issues in 7 years. If it were my truck NEW truck I would want the brackets bolted on. I have only seen it once, we were having a tower installed on a 50 Hatteras with a set of 3412 CATS in it and when they were done the boat would not run [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] after CAT was done replacing all of the electronics ($40k later [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif[/img])the tower guys make sure the engines PCM's are unplugged. We have had a few boats do the same thing when they were hit by lightening. Good Luck

Frank

[85Hauler]

Whenever I've installed any sort of hitch on my trucks I've bolted it. However on my two haulers, '85 w/schwalbe bed and a y2k w/western hauler bed the gooseneck plate is welded to the frames. I've had no failures with them. The '85 has at least 250k with a gooseneck behind it.

[parkers30]

The gooseneck on my truck was welded in when the original owner had it. and No problems.

If it were me 'd bolt it on.

[Copper]

A weld parallel to the frame probably isn't a big deal, especially on the web - but a weld on the top or bottom, especially perpendicular across it, "can" cause a weak spot, by cracking next to the weld. I've seen it happen, but it was almost always a really bad amateur buzzbox weld, too......

The biggest issues I've seen with welded-in plates is the lack of flex - on older pickups especially, the frame was more/less designed to flex, so welding in a big plate (long front-to-back) would stiffen them up a little too much and cause some cracks in strange places.

I'd bolt it -

[Chyrel]

I can, and have welded everything from a broken heart to the crack of dawn! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
But when it comes to truck / car frames I try to bolt. Use just a touch of oil on the bolts, use lock washers, or better yet nylon lock nuts, torque to manufacture specifications, and don’t look back! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]

[Phillipmc1268]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Copper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... by cracking next to the weld. I've seen it happen, but it was almost always a really bad amateur buzzbox weld, too......
- </div></div>

Bingo! The welding heat did not cause the crack, it was hydrogen embrittlement. When I hear buzzbox, I think AC only. DC is required with the right electrode to make a weld in high carbon steel. The hydrogen diffuses into the steel when molten leaving tiny gas bubbles when solidified that act as stress risers.

This is why I get anal about welding high carbon steel. A man that works across the street from me is crippled for life from this type of failure. His uncle came up with a homemade man lift, put ole Marvin up in the air about 30' and the high carbon steel next to the weld cracked letting Marvin fall. He says it was just weak metal, the weld held fine.

[LMJD]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Always bolt on, welding could......</div></div>
Yessir, take a look inside the frame rails of any truck frame bigger than a pickup. From a smaller International with a gas engine to a full size Peterbilt, etc, both sides of the frame rails are slathered with decals saying DO NOT WELD ON FRAME RAILS. Seems like it would also apply to a pickup for the same reasons.

[Chyrel]

Hate to break it to you boys, but my 2004 F-550 was perfectly legal, (warranty) to weld on the frame, as per Ford’s up fit manual. I don’t remember reading a welding procedure per se, do remember it stating before doing any welding to disconnect both batteries, and then there was a start up procedure. When I built the 14-foot flatbed dump, only welding I did to the frame was the hinge that was all the way out at the tail end of the frame, and yes I used 7018.
Now my 2007 Dodge cab & chassis didn’t even come with up fit instruction, just a little bragging section stating it has 50,000-PSI steel where it counts the most! (Insert roll eyes icon here) [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]! Maybe in a few years Dodge will catch up in the commercial truck area. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]