Over on GVWR & GAWR....

[Retired GI]

I'm pulling a 37 foot fifth-wheel with a 2006 F-250. The truck has a 10,000 GVWR, a 6100 rear GAWR and a GCWR of 23,000.

I weighed my truck and fifth wheel a few days ago and I'm over my rear GAWR by about 350lbs and over about 1160 lbs. on GWVR. I'm under my GCWR of 23000 lbs.

Is being over on my axle weight dangerous or something I need to be seriously concerned about?

[lone_star_dsl]

Sounds like you either need a bigger truck or a smaller trailer.

I'm sure youre not hurting the truck but if you were ever involved in an accident, they could take you to task for being overweight. (The truck, not you personally)

Smokeywren will chime in shortly and get you straightened out on what will work best for you.

[knoweigh]

you didn't post the actual weight of your trailer, but I"m guessing it'll tip the scales over 11k loaded?
With most 5th wheels over 35ft, you're pushing the limit of a SRW 3/4 truck IF you're putting alot of miles on it AND especially through any mountainous terrain.

If I was running to the campground a couple hours away half a dozen times a year, I wouldnt' be concerned at all.
If I was towing it all over the country I'd probly look at getting into a dually.

just my $.02 worth.

As stated above, smokeywren will chime in here to give you the "book".

[Believer45]

Personally I would be concerned with a couple ratings - I will never knowingly exceed tire ratings at all (you do not say what your rear tires are rated at but they are generally what limits the rear axle GAWR) and do not like to exceed axle weight ratings. The rest I figure in a small fudge factor above the factory ratings.

Smokey has a ton of information and a very good handle on what will do what, he should be along shortly.

Dave / Believer45

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by Retired GI

I weighed my truck and fifth wheel a few days ago and I'm over my rear GAWR by about 350lbs and over about 1160 lbs. on GWVR. I'm under my GCWR of 23000 lbs.

So your GVW is about 11,160 and your rear GAW is about 6450?

Typical F-250 sob story. You should have bought an a minimum of an F-350 SRW. The 2006 F-350 SRW PSD longbed CrewCab 4x4 has a GVWR of 11,500 and a rear GAWR of 7,280.

Is being over on my axle weight dangerous or something I need to be seriously concerned about?

I think so. You can be over your GVWR bit and it doesn't really matter as long as you're not over the GAWR. But when you exceed the GAWR you have overloaded your rear axle, tires, and suspension. Not a good.

As lone_star_dsl mentioned, if you are ever in an accident being overloaded that much, you can bend over and kiss ole hiney goodby. The lawyers will be sure you and your family will be poor the rest of your life.

What to do? There's not much you can do except trade for a truck with adequate GVWR and rear GAWR to haul that trailer without being overloaded. Or trade for less trailer that won't have so much pin weight.

[bryanl]

While it is a good idea to use vehicles that are operated within ratings, I don't think scare tactics help anyone.

The lawyers will be sure you and your family will be poor the rest of your life.

I'd like to know more about these cases as I've seen no evidence of them. It seems a lot of FUD mongering that is self propagating. Even drunks don't have this risk from what I can tell.

Ratings have more to do with taxes and licensing, especially in the commercial arena.

These are ratings, not limits. 5% over an axle rating and 10% over vehicle isn't likely to be significant. A lot depends upon where the weight is. You can do things to compensate to some extent if need be. The first thing to watch out for is handling, especially steering. Braking shouldn't be a problem. Acceleration can be a nuisance. You should always drive more conservatively with weight and that rule applies here.

As noted, the first priority is that you do not exceed tire and wheel ratings. Those are most critical and most likely to suffer catastrophic failure. Axle ratings have more to do with wear and tear. Vehicle ratings are more about load distributions. Combination ratings are wild guesses.

[gmoore]

I have to agree with Brianl. Scare tactics are just that.

After 31 years in law enforcement, investigating all kinds of accidents and testifying in lots criminal and civil courts, I have yet to see or hear about (from reliable sources) cases being tried, where the person responsible for causing the accident was "sued" for being over "factory GVW or GAWR ratings". I've seen cases where attorneys have tried to build and file a complaint in court when the vehicle was altered in height (causing the offending vehicle to drive over their clients car). One case was where the truck had a 6" lift with 36" tall tires. This case didn't make it into court because the attorneys couldn't find enough case law to back them up and the truck met all DOT requirements for bumper and headlight heights. Another case did make it into court, but it was a truck with 12" of lift, 44" tires and did not meet DOT height requirements. There have been cases of semi's causing accidents, and one of the factors involved was being 10,000-50,000# over licensed weight. The state nailed them for the over weight. It was much of issue in civil court, because anytime a semi and a smaller vehicle are envolved in an accident, the smaller vehicle normally loses. It's also physics. Also known as the theory of LUG NUTS. In an accident, the person with the most lug nuts on their vehicle usually wins.

Factory GVWR is a PERFORMANCE rating. GAWR is usually set by the tires and wheels that the manufacture supplies with the vehicle from the factory. Some states use these ratings for licensing purposes. (My truck has a factory GVWR of 11,400 - the state licensed it for 12k without asking me if I wanted it that high or higher.)

DOT is only concerned with tire width and strength, to support the weight being hauled over public roads, and of course license fees. If you have the tires and the proper "weight fees" paid, they don't care. I'm sure most of you have seen F250's and F350's licensed (and GVW posted) for well in excess of 24,000#s. Mainly for hauling trailers in a commercial business.

Common sense goes a long way towards hauling/towing loads safely.

[NickKent]

Originally Posted by Retired GI

I'm pulling a 37 foot fifth-wheel with a 2006 F-250. The truck has a 10,000 GVWR, a 6100 rear GAWR and a GCWR of 23,000.

I weighed my truck and fifth wheel a few days ago and I'm over my rear GAWR by about 350lbs and over about 1160 lbs. on GWVR. I'm under my GCWR of 23000 lbs.

Is being over on my axle weight dangerous or something I need to be seriously concerned about?

You should put in a good effort to find some tires that are rated higher than your current ones and put them on your truck so you won't be over the combined tire rating. Personally I would get a higher rated truck or smaller trailer.

[Smiley1]

Originally Posted by gmoore

I have to agree with Brianl. Scare tactics are just that.

After 31 years in law enforcement, investigating all kinds of accidents and testifying in lots criminal and civil courts, I have yet to see or hear about (from reliable sources) cases being tried, where the person responsible for causing the accident was "sued" for being over "factory GVW or GAWR ratings". I've seen cases where attorneys have tried to build and file a complaint in court when the vehicle was altered in height (causing the offending vehicle to drive over their clients car). One case was where the truck had a 6" lift with 36" tall tires. This case didn't make it into court because the attorneys couldn't find enough case law to back them up and the truck met all DOT requirements for bumper and headlight heights. Another case did make it into court, but it was a truck with 12" of lift, 44" tires and did not meet DOT height requirements. There have been cases of semi's causing accidents, and one of the factors involved was being 10,000-50,000# over licensed weight. The state nailed them for the over weight. It was much of issue in civil court, because anytime a semi and a smaller vehicle are envolved in an accident, the smaller vehicle normally loses. It's also physics. Also known as the theory of LUG NUTS. In an accident, the person with the most lug nuts on their vehicle usually wins.

Factory GVWR is a PERFORMANCE rating. GAWR is usually set by the tires and wheels that the manufacture supplies with the vehicle from the factory. Some states use these ratings for licensing purposes. (My truck has a factory GVWR of 11,400 - the state licensed it for 12k without asking me if I wanted it that high or higher.)

DOT is only concerned with tire width and strength, to support the weight being hauled over public roads, and of course license fees. If you have the tires and the proper "weight fees" paid, they don't care. I'm sure most of you have seen F250's and F350's licensed (and GVW posted) for well in excess of 24,000#s. Mainly for hauling trailers in a commercial business.

Common sense goes a long way towards hauling/towing loads safely.

EXACTLY!

Just to add a few comments: You can load up to 20,000 lbs per axle if the tires are rated for it. If an officer can articulate that the vehicle is unsafe you will be put out of service.