Overloading and single rear wheel

[dirtcurt]

Hello, I have a dual question in reguards to overloading. I have a 2000PSD that has been absolutly perfect in the 7 years I have owned it. I really hate to sell it BUT....My new trailer weighs 12.5K dry and my GCVW is 23,000. My calcs figure I can pull about 13000# on the fifth wheel. The trailer will gross at 15.5K. How much can I legally pull? The door sticker says nothing about gross combined just 8800# total. My truck has a single rear wheel and I am wondering about blowing out a tire and the problems that will follow. Has anybody blown a rear single tire with a big 5er behind it? I have a Raptor 3612 37' with about 2800# on the hitch.

The second part is I am looking at a 2006 King Ranch 350DRW 4X4 as a replacement. Is this a good vehicle? Should I try to modify my 2000 to make it LEGAL, can I do this with out totally tearing my truck apart? The current 0% Factory deals are pulling me that direction but I worry I will end up with a new junker. Has anybody done this exchange and regretted it?

[JimTJr]

When it comes to "RVs" the LEGAL and the SAFE ways are two different animals. You will not need to cross the scales, ever. So being over on the rear axle is not going to get you in trouble with the DOT. However if you ever had an accident, and killed/maimed someone, then a good lawyer may have fun with you!
The rear axle on a SRW is rated at 5700 I think, my dually is 8800 total for either one according to FORD is only 20,000 I belive. But the States dont look at that, they look at your plate. Now if you have 12,000 lb truck plates on your truck and a cop stops you, and knows what your trailer has to weigh even by itself,,(Say he is an avid RVr too..) Then he may mess with you. It is kind of a crap shoot that you MOST likely wont get into any trouble with no more than your likely to haul this trailer. I would go to a local truck stop, with the truck full of fuel, trailer setup like you will haul it all the time,,(Clean water tank full, if so. (Black/grey can stay empty I guess, if you left the camp ground they would have something in them, but clean would be lower probably.) Only a couple hundred lbs difference either way anyway...[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] All items in there the wife is going to stash....
Then get an empty weight of truck, trailer combined with axle weights..
If your only over a few hundred pounds, unless you really want that '06 KR!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] Then pull it with the SRW for a while, see how it pulls and how you like it.
The other safety item is only having one rear tire instead of duals....a blowout with that 15k lb trailer pushing you down a mountain is not a fun scenario IMHO!!!
Good luck on what you decide. The only real reason I have my SRW for sale is I really needed a dually, (I have my own authority and have to cross scales hauling cars/hotshot stuff,, last load I took with my dually had 6700 lbs on the rear axle, so the DOT would have had a HEYDAY with me in my SRW)

[Jake92]

I also have a srw 2000 and I pull a 33ft sportsmen. I gross at 13,500 and have had no trouble. I have pulled maybe 5000 miles. My hitch weight is like 1800.

[dirtcurt]

My hitch weight is about 2700 pounds depending on load over the hitch and my truck's GCWR is 23,000. If I remember correctly my truck weighed 7600 with the hitch installed. Actual weight of the trailer with nothing(completely MT) was 11,800 pounds. I think my only real problem is the rear wheels/axle. I have taken the trailer on some steep grades and have found it pulls well enough up and down to stay up with car traffic in the curves. That's where I start to worry about the back tires. I'm not going to like worrying about how much I can toss in the trailer. The writing is on the wall but I'm just not reading it yet. I just hope I don't get the horror stories F-350. Thanks for the help and if anyone has any suggestions(like a dually conversion is FUN)let me know.

[drmiller100]

a rear blow out woudl be bad. A front tire blow out would be a LOT worse.

The e-rated tires are good for 3500 each. that is 14k on the truck, which is not going to happen. 7000 on the rear axle is a LOT. Basically, it will be pretty tough to overload the tires if they are inflated correctly.

I ran 255-85-16 all winter. thought they road fine. this summer i put 265-75-16 tires on. they are squirmy.

if i was towing a bunch at speed i might consider smaller tires.

[sy5adm1n]

dirtcurt, My head hurts trying to track the numbers and come up with the right response, plus everytime you do, the safe numbers change. I've seen alot of folks with your setup on the road in SRW vehicles, including Chevy and Dodge. They all seem to pull well and I don't see alot of sag. I pull a pretty good sized 5er and my rear would drop a bit, and I worried about my rear wheels constantly. I took a different route and went for decent wheels, Rickson, 19.5 with a comparable tire and the difference was night and day. I don't have any sag, it feels very stable, hauls well and gives me back that smile. You might take a look at the various manufacturers out there that produce wheels for our trucks and see if upgrading your wheels and tires would be a better idea than a new truck, unless of course you are looking at an excuse to get that new truck :-)

[SmokeyWren]

[ QUOTE ]
My new trailer weighs 12.5K dry and my GCVW is 23,000. My calcs figure I can pull about 13000# on the fifth wheel. The trailer will gross at 15.5K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your GCVW is 20,000 pounds. Your wet and loaded tow vehicle will weigh about 8,500 pounds. So any trailer that weighs more than about 11,500 is going to exceed the GCWR of your tow vehicle.

[ QUOTE ]
How much can I legally pull?

[/ QUOTE ]

By "legally" if you mean without getting a ticket, then probably there is no limit for towing a personal RV. But if you mean "safely" instead of "legally", then that's a different question.

Ford publishes their estimates of the safe limits of your truck. 8,800 GVWR and 20,000 GCWR. If you don't like their numbers, then as a minimum do not exceed your axle limits. Your rear GAWR is probably 4,970 pounds but may be as high as 6,084. Your wet and loaded tow vehicle is going to weigh around 4,000 pounds on the rear axle, so that leaves a max hitch weight of just over 2,000 pounds.

[ QUOTE ]
The door sticker says nothing about gross combined just 8800# total.

[/ QUOTE ]

The door sticker includes the front and rear GAWR, and those are the important limits for being safe. The GCWR is in your PSD Owner's Guide Supplement - where it states 20,000 pounds.

(2005-up PSDs have a GCWR of 23,000 pounds, but not your Y2K model.)


[ QUOTE ]
I have a Raptor 3612 37' with about 2800# on the hitch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you are way over your rear axle rating. I would not tow that trailer with an F-250. Period.

[ QUOTE ]
The second part is I am looking at a 2006 King Ranch 350DRW 4X4 as a replacement. Is this a good vehicle?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wonderful!

Almost perfect for your needs. GCWR of 23,500 minus about 9,000 for truck weight leaves up to 14,500 for gross trailer weight. 13,000 pounds GVWR with 9,000 pounds rear GAWR means no problems with hitch weight. With the 4.10 rear end, you should be happy with the trailer towing power of the Dooley. With the optional 4.30 rear end (TowBoss pkg) you'll have more than enough towing performance.


[ QUOTE ]
Should I try to modify my 2000 to make it LEGAL, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

No such thing. You can add heavier suspension and stronger tires to make it a little safer, but replacing the rear axle with one rated to haul that much weight would be a very expensive undertaking. And even then you'd have a home-made custom truck with a GVWR of 8,800 pounds. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[dirtcurt]

Sy5admin1n your not kidding. To find actual numbers to apply to my truck is almost impossible. It's somewhat subjective and unless you go into overkill mode and buy a F650 to haul a 10 foot trailer(or go through the scales every trip) you can't be real sure. I suppose if an accident did happen to occur a lawer would also have trouble figuring it out as well. The wheel change actually seems like a good choice at this point. I will look into that. Thank You! I also would like a new truck, but the stupid dealers dropped the ball when my emotions were high. They had me. They just didn't have the truck I wanted. Heck they called me in twice, once saying they had a dually f350, then the second time they told me they had a King Ranch F350. NOT! Both times nothing! Not even a dually of any kind!!!! My next choice was 6 hours of driving. Oh well.

[SmokeyWren]

[ QUOTE ]
They just didn't have the truck I wanted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slow down. Relax. You don't need a new truck this instant. Your old truck will do fine for a few more weeks. Here's what I'd do.

Contact Bobby Williams at www.sunrisefordfleet.com . Ask him if he can get you exactly the 2006 tow vehicle you want. If he can, then he'll give you a good price and you're good to go.

If your truck is no longer available somewhere in a 2006, then the 2007s are identical. Bobby can also search for a 2007 that's waiting for you somewhere. But if one is still not on the ground somewhere, then Bobby can factory-order exactly what you want.

So download the 2007 F-350 Order Guide from Bobby's website, and determine exactly what you want - and are willing to pay for - on your new truck. Then contact Bobby and get his price on that exact truck. You can make your deal over the phone or by e-mail or fax. Hundreds of others have done that - some from as far away as New England! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Bobby will order the truck, and you'll have it probably in less than two months. In the meantime, you can check the status of your order on his website, or call him up and bug him. It may seem like "forever" during the wait, but you'll be glad you waited to get exactly what you think you want. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img] For delivery you can either go to SoCal, or Bobby can have the new truck drop-shipped to a Ford dealer near you.

BTW, Bobby has been a supporter of TheDieselStop for several years, so lots of members here have bought their new trucks from him. He's one of the very few dealerpersons in the business that will tell you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img]

[dirtcurt]

Here's the update so far. Had a "sold" truck "fall out" of a sale and it looks like I might get it tomorrow morning. So far X plan and 0 percent$52,182 OTD with a payment of $724. Feel free to comment.

Smokey Wren thanks for the feedback. I actually did not catch what you said until tonight. It's been awhile since I've been active on this website, and your still here! I burned out a few years back while the website kept changing names and fighting with Ford. I got tired of the flamers(turbo bolts falling out) and BS that went with it. So I faded away.....

Back to the truck/trailer. Ford is saying I can pull 16,500# with this KR350 and I was wondering where that came from? I also had one person tell me that to pull 19,000 pounds I needed the .430 rear end and tow command setup. Is this a different axle? Then another claimed I could do this(19000) with the .410. ARHHHH!!!!

Smokey Wren I will still be overweight if I go to full 15.5K gross trailer weight with the KR? I can see it will be close, but with the duals/bigger axle, it will be much safer. At first I felt I might not need the 350 but it appears that it will be just adequate and justified. Can't wait to see the eye roll I get from my wife with that one! One more thing, I tried the "smaller trailer" approach with miserable results. She was spoiled on just one trip(so was I not pulling two trailers anymore and a stand alone commode with a magazine rack!). Thanks again!

[GruntTorque]

X plan with that OTD price seems high to me. My Harley was like 48,300 with Tax and license. And my payment is 678.00 but I went 84 months

And BTW I pull my 3712 Raptor fine with my single rear wheel. I feel really comfortable with my Toyo E rated M/T's the sidewalls dont move at all with the pin weight. I weighed my setup and I got a little over 24k combined so Im even a little over my limits but I also have an extra fuel tank and other stuff. Gotta love the magazine rack [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[GruntTorque]

Oh I guess I had a 2500 loyalty rebate and 500 for something else so thats probably right then

[SmokeyWren]

[ QUOTE ]
Here' Ford is saying I can pull 16,500# with this KR350 and I was wondering where that came from?

[/ QUOTE ]


23,500 GCWR minus 16,500 "max" trailer weight = 7,000 pounds wet and loaded tow vehicle weight.

So if you can load up the tow vehicle with fuel, 5er hitch, toolbox, cooler, driver, passenger and whatever else you haul around and still not gross over 7,000 pounds, then you could tow a trailer grossing 16,500 without exceeding the GCWR of your tow vehicle.

But, of course, your wet and loaded truck is going to weigh a lot more than 7,000 pounds. Probably closer to 8,500 and maybe even 9,000 if your truck is a PSD longbed 4x4 DRW and you haul the normal amount of tools and jacks and fluids, etc.

So forget the 16,500 as a pipe dream. Weigh the wet and loaded truck, and subtract that weight from 23,500 and you'll then know the real-world max weight of any trailer you can tow without exceeding the GCWR of your truck.

[ QUOTE ]
I also had one person tell me that to pull 19,000 pounds I needed the .430 rear end and tow command setup. Is this a different axle?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tow Command is primarily the good brake controller integrated with the auto tranny to result in the tow/haul mode working great. It has nothing to do with rear axle.

The Tow Boss pkg is primarily the limited-slip 4.30 rear axle ratio in a Dana 80 rear axle. Yes, that's a different rear axle than the standard Dana 80 with 3.73 open axle or the optional 4.10 limited slip axle. With the TowBoss pkg your GCWR increases to 26,000 pounds. So with Ford ridiculous estimate on only 7,000 pounds truck weight, you could tow 19,000 pounds without being overloaded.

[ QUOTE ]
Then another claimed I could do this(19000) with the .410. ARHHHH!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

You can tow a 19,000-pound 5er with the Dooley with 4.10 rear end, but you'll be several thousand pounds overloaded per the GCWR of the tow vehicle.

[ QUOTE ]
Smokey Wren I will still be overweight if I go to full 15.5K gross trailer weight with the KR?

[/ QUOTE ]

With the trailer wet and loaded down to 15.5k, that leaves you 8,000 pounds for wet and loaded truck weight. That may be do-able if you haul absolutely nothing in the truck other than one driver and one passenger and the 5er hitch. But if your truck is a PSD 4x4 Dooley, then even with nothing in the truck such as tools and cooler, you'll probably weigh more than 8,000 pounds.

So if you don't want to be overloaded, you'll have to get the sweetheart to cooperate by not hauling heavy stuff in the 5er. Travel with empty holding tanks. Leave the heavy pots and pans and dishes at home. Load the pantry lightly with only a couple of days worth of food. Etc.

If that sounds like an unlikely senerio, then skip that truck and custom-order the one you want with the TowBoss pkg. 26,000 GCWR minus 15,500 trailer = 10,500 max truck weight. That's more realistic. And you won't have to eat off paper plates or worry about how much fresh water you have in the tank before you hit the road. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img]

[drmiller100]

you had mentioned that your truck weighs 4000 on the rear axles empty. Very curious.


i'll have to go weigh mine one of these days, but I would guess it is something just under 3000 pounds.

[SmokeyWren]

[ QUOTE ]
you had mentioned that your truck weighs 4000 on the rear axles empty.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to define "empty". When loaded for a road trip but without the trailer, the truck weighs around 8,000 pounds. I've never weighed just the "empty" truck, so I don't know the weight distribution on front and rear axles without the trailer, but I'll bet it's close to 50/50.

When the truck was brand new, I weighed it at the gin: 6,920 pounds empty but full of diesel. But I then immediately installed the Rhino bedliner and big toolchest and filled the toolchest full of tools.

With the trailer, driver, passenger, tools, etc., the wet and loaded front axle varies from 4,320 to 4,440. So I'm assuming the front axle weighs around 4,000 empty. That leaves 2,920 for the empty rear axle. But I never run around without the bedliner and a toolbox full of tools and other stuff, me and my sweetheart and puppydog, so it would be rare that my "empty" pickup would weigh much less than 8,000 pounds with almost 4,000 pounds on the rear axle.