real weight vs. advertised weight

[NEFORDFAN]

Generally are the real weights of fifth wheels heavier than what is advertised?
I am looking at the Heartland Bighorn model 3370RL, the Big Country model3250TS and the Keystone Montana model3485SA.
I'm pretty sure my current trucks will be overloaded, so what do I need to look at as far as trucks; F350, F450, International CXT [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]?

[larry_minn]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally are the real weights of fifth wheels heavier than what is advertised?
I am looking at the Heartland Bighorn model 3370RL, the Big Country model3250TS and the Keystone Montana model3485SA.
I'm pretty sure my current trucks will be overloaded, so what do I need to look at as far as trucks; F350, F450, International CXT [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]?

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NOrmally the weights is empty/dry tanks. Water/fuel/food is HEAVY. IIRC water is 8.5 lbs per gallon.. So you have to add in everything.
Does your truck have 5th wheel plate/brake/light setup? Only way to know is hook up and weigh it.
Your truck is same way. Weight is with dang near dry tank, base truck (don't even think they figure in weight of ac) and IIRC driver weight of 150lbs (Something really low for average American)
Lots of stuff matter for if truck can pull it. How much wind resistance trailer has, how heavy it is, what type of hills/wind/loose gravel, A 3/4 ton of early 90s with camper/tow package WAS a ONE ton. Even how fast you want to travel matters. If you are going surface streets with 55 mph top speed and have a 4.10 you can haul a heck of a load.
IMO go for a smaller/lighter camper.

[RickHredf250]

What is the (GCVWR) Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating of your current truck?
This is a rating that should be in your owners manual and will vary with options such as gears, tranny 4 door, super cab, regular cab etc.
What is the Dry and wet rating of the tow unit you are looking at? found it, Gross 14,000 dry 11,000.
So you could add cargo to the 5th wheel up to 3,000 including water.
Take the GCVWR from your pickups owners manual and subtract 14,000 and see whats left. Is it less than your your pickups GVWR?
In the end, truck, 5th wheel and cargo need to be with in the GCVWR.
Wait a minute! That big horn model you listed has 2 - 6,000# axles under it and it is gross rated at 14,000#. What the heck!!! Seems like the manufacture has done some numbers game with the weight ratings. Maybe they are figuring the pin weight will be on the truck and taking that off the 14,000#, thats still 12,060# I know axles are made with a margin of safety but why would the manufacture of the 5r exceed the advertised rating of the axle by 60#.
Try and get the RV sales guy to explain that one to you! His head will explode!!!
Rick H...

[SmokeyWren]

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Generally are the real weights of fifth wheels heavier than what is advertised?

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Ignore all the numbers except one. The GVWR of the 5er is very close to what most folks will be towing after the first or second trip. So go by the GVWR of the trailer. That's the one spec that the trailer manufacturers and salesmen can't fudge.

For a 5er with a GVWR of less than about 10,000 pounds, assume a wet and loaded hitch weight of 17 percent. With a GVWR of 10,000 to about 13,000, assume a hitch weight of 18 percent. If the GVWR is more than 13,000 pounds, then assume a hitch weight of 20 percent. And some "luxury" 5ers in the 20k weight class have a hitch weight of around 24 percent. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

When matching the tow vehicle to the trailer, remember to consider both the GVWR and the GCWR of the tow vehicle. An F-250 has the same GCWR as the F-350 SRW, but it can't tow nearly as much trailer because it runs out of GVWR before it reaches the GCWR.

Assume a wet and loaded SRW CrewCab 4x4 PSD pickup will gross 8,500 pounds before you tie onto the 5er. And for a DRW, add 500 more pounds for a total of 9,000. Then the math is relatively easy to see how much tow vehicle you need.

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I'm pretty sure my current trucks will be overloaded, so what do I need to look at as far as trucks; F350, F450, International CXT [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]?

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I'll use the Keystone Montana model 3485SA as an example.
http://keystone-montana.com/?page=specs

Dry weight 11,160 plus 4,180 carrying capacity = 15,340 GVWR.

20 percent of GVWR = 3,068 hitch weight

SRW tow vehicle 8,500 plus 3,068 hitch weight = minimum 11,568 GVWR.

SRW tow vehicle 8,500 plus 15,340 trailer weight = 23,840 minimum GCWR for the SRW tow vehicle.

So does Ford make an SRW pickup with more than 11,568 GVWR and more than 23,840 GCWR? Nope. Not quiet. Max GVWR is 11,500 for the F-350 SRW, and only 10,000 for the F-250. Max GCWR is 23,000. So that's a bit too much trailer for an F-350 SRW, and don't even think about an F-250.

F-350 DRW tow vehicle 9,000 pounds plus 3,068 hitch weight = minimum 12,068 GVWR.

F-350 DRW tow vehicle 9,000 pounds plus 15,340 trailer = minimum 24,340 GCWR.

So will a "normal" F-350 DRW do the job? It has 13,000 GVWR, so no problem there. But it has only 23,500 GCWR, so it's too light in the britches there.

But Ford also makes the F-350 DRW TowBoss. Same 13,000 GVWR, but 26,000 GCWR. So there's your answer. If your wife can't live without that Montana, then you need a new F-350 DRW with the TowBoss pkg to safely tow that much 5er. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img]

You don't "need" an F-450 for that big trailer. The "normal" F-450 pickup - without the high capacity towing pkg - has the same 26,000 pounds GCWR and the same 4.30 rear axle as the F-350 DRW Towboss. And it has a heck of a lot more GVWR at 14,500 pounds, which you won't need for that trailer unless your wife decides to bring home a bed full of rocks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] But if you "want" the F-450 because of image or macho or because it's new or some such, it will be a good fit for that trailer.

[LMJD]

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Generally are the real weights of fifth wheels heavier than what is advertised?

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Yessir, unless the law has cracked down on them in recent years, it's been cussed and discussed in Trailer Life Mag many times how far off the mfgrs figure is compared to real empty weight.

[wingnut60]

For several years, I believe the gummint (or the RVIA) has required trailers to have a label inside somewhere that gives an assumed "weight as built" that accounts for factory-installed options. If you have looked at that Montana, find the label (usually inside a cabinet/door in the kitchen area)and it will give you a much better (but still a guess) idea of the actual weight and cargo carrying capacity (CCC) of the trailer.

[LMJD]

Evidently not, in fact in this issue of T.L. a guy is pitching a fit in the letters to the editor dept. about his new trailer weighing 7000 versus the 5000 on the tag.

[96STROKE]

advertised weight is ussually = to dry weight of a Base model trailer(no options). The only way to find out what a trailer really weights in at is to take it across the scale.

To get your dry weight you must add all your camping items and go across a scale. To get your wet weight fill with food and water ready to go camping and run across a scale.
GVRW is the MAX that trailer can weight fully loaded, if you go over this you need to remove stuff to get under it.

My trailer is approx 9k dry, 11k wet, and has a GVWR of 12.5k

[wingnut60]

LMJD--you are right about that, that particular trailer was mislabled, and some sort of agreement was made to correct the situation. For the most part, tho, the label in the trailer will be somewhat indicative of what the entire trailer weighs as built as compared to what it is designed to carry as max weight. But they dont weigh any of the trailers, just take the sum of the presumed weights of all the parts and options. The as-built weight will ALWAYS be much higher than the brochure weight, thats why the label exists. But I don't think there is any penalty associated with mis-labeling, either intentionally or not.

96stroke--right on!

[Wolley]

My trailer built in 2001 has the cabinet sticker that claims 10,800.
I have scaled with no more than 500lbs in it, with no water on board and it was a touch over 13,000

[wingnut60]

Wolley--you are saying your trailer is 13k gwr and and weighs over that with 500 lbs in it? That the 'dry weight' is 12,500 +/-? on a 13k trailer? Bummer.

[Wolley]

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Wolley--you are saying your trailer is 13k gwr and and weighs over that with 500 lbs in it? That the 'dry weight' is 12,500 +/-? on a 13k trailer? Bummer.

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No the GVWR on the trailer is 14K. So with a normal stuff I will be overweight if I fill the fresh water tank completely. My water tank is 100 gallons. 834lbs [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]