Short bed w/ GN...advice needed

[DRAG]

Hi everyone. I have some questions that will probably seem pretty basic, but reading through some of the forum it looks like I will get some decent criticisms [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

I am currently pulling a 28 foot tag race car trailer and am looking to upgrade and pull 2 cars. I found a killer deal on a new 48 foot United gooseneck with a wide overhang. Have any of you pulled a wide overhang with a short bed...and more particularly a United GN?

Can I use something like this if I am running into clearance problems with the cab? http://bageco.com/gooseneck/goosenecksb12.htm
It says it is rated for 24,000lb gross trailer weight and 6,000lb gross tongue weight. This trailer has a GVWR of 15,000 lbs (three 5,200lb axles)

My other question is in regards to the capabilities of my truck. It is a crew cab Duramax short bed 4x4 2500. My GN tow rating is 16,000 lb and 4060 lb bed weight. The trailer loaded with both of my cars and my tools and gear is just under 14,000 lbs and I can put a large majority of the weight over the 3 axles due to the weight placement in the FWD drag cars. Have you guys pulled this much weight on a single axle? I'm not worried about power...it rips 10K lbs around like it isn't there, I think the 3 axle and GN will make it pretty stable for highway pulling.

I would feel much more comfortable with a dually, but this sucker is paid for by sponsor dollars and I'm not getting rid of it [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] Any advice is greatly appreciated [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[SmokeyWren]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can I use something like this if I am running into clearance problems with the cab? http://bageco.com/gooseneck/goosenecksb12.htm </div></div>

Double-check with United (not their dealer but the manufacturer of the trailer), but I suspect they will void your trailer warranty in a heartbeat if you add that leverage to their frame. Because the increased leverage on the frame can bend the frame and ruin the trailer - or worse.
Click here.

Shorty tow vehicles and wide-front gooseneck trailers don't mix. There are too many situations where you must jacknife to get out of a jam, and you cannot jacknife that combo without ruining your day with cab and trailer damage.

A much more likely combo that would not void your trailer warranty would be to convert the trailer's gooseneck hitch to a kingpin hitch, then use a slider fifth-wheel hitch. There are two basic designs of slider 5er hitch that will work.

The good one is fully automatic, and the hitch will slide any time you turn a corner or back into a jacknife. http://www.pullrite.com/superglide.htm

The cheaper ones require you to get out of the truck and manually slide the hitch before you put the tranny in reverse. Every time. Without fail. Click here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My GN tow rating is 16,000 lb...</div></div>

The factory "tow rating" is meaningless. It assumes your truck has no options and a skinny driver and absolutely nothing else in the pickup.

Your limiter on a 3/4-ton pickup is probably your GVWR. Load the pickup with your normal stuff that you haul on the road. Toolbox, spray-in bedliner, tank full of fuel, driver, passenger(s), coolers full of cool, jacks, hitch installed, whatever. No trailer, just the wet and loaded pickup. Weigh the pickup on a CAT scale. Add the weight on the front and rear axles to get the GVW. Subtract the GVW from the GVWR and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded.

Don't cheat yourself on the weight of your wet and loaded trailer. Count on it grossing 15,000 pounds. Hitch weight on a tripple-axle trailer will probably be 20 percent. 20 percent of 15k is 3,000 pounds. Subtract 3,000 pounds from the GVWR of your pickup and the answer is the max your wet and loaded tow vehicle can weigh before you tie onto the trailer.

But your pickup is going to weigh more than that, so you're going to be overloaded.

[Hook'em Horns!]

Looking at these extended couplers in the past, my first thought was the added stress to the frame mounted hitch reducing its capacity, but it actually adds stress to the trailer frame also? The SuperGlide is interesting, working automatically, how does it not move back during acceleration but does gradually slide during a turn?
I sure wouldn't tow that with that truck regardless of short or long bed.

[barrelhorses]

I have the 9" SB1 extended coupler on my Sundowner LQ horse trailer. I actually had it on my last trailer and the dealership helped me exchange the coupler when I traded trailers. Perhaps there is some added stress to the frame, but so far I haven't had any issues.

[NickKent]

Why don't you just convert the trailer to a 5th wheel hitch and use a sliding 5th wheel in the truck. You should read deeply into Smokey's post. That trailer is going to max your trucks capacities out. Check your true GVWR, and RGAWR when loaded. Tire rating too.

[barrelhorses]

I agree that the OP will be overloaded. I was just commenting on my experience with the extended coupler.

[LMJD]

I agree, the added stress is all on the extended piece itself, not on the trailer gooseneck ass'y. Another neat option for the OP is go to the B&W hitch website, they now offer a clever ball extension that sets the ball back a number of inches from its original mounting position. I'll probably go that route when I put one of their hitches in my wife's 1/2 ton.

[DRAG]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LMJD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree, the added stress is all on the extended piece itself, not on the trailer gooseneck ass'y. Another neat option for the OP is go to the B&W hitch website, they now offer a clever ball extension that sets the ball back a number of inches from its original mounting position. I'll probably go that route when I put one of their hitches in my wife's 1/2 ton. </div></div>

Thanks for the info everyone. I saw one of the ball extensions this morning. The guy was pulling a 30 foot horse trailer with the ball extension + the 9" extension I linked to and an F150 crew cab.

The 5th wheel conversion looks like a decent option, even though I could really care less about voiding the trailer warranty. I have had lots of trailers over the years, and never an issue. I put about 30,000 miles a year on a trailer, so they get a decent amount of use.

I guess my problem is still the weight. It is hard for me to distinguish between what is right and what people actually do. I go to the race track and see people pulling 53 foot trailers with living quarters and two cars that are 3500lbs each...easily 20,000lb rigs. Overloading seems to be a norm amongst racers. The trailer I am considering is owned by Indy Racing League, and they replaced it with a 53 foot stacker that is pulled by a Chevy 8.1 dually...another 20,000lb rig. That guy says no problem, and he has no incentive to sell me the trailer...they don't need the money. I visited my dealer this morning who is a 70 year old guy that has been selling trailers his whole life (and has more than 1000 trailers on his lot). He thinks I'm a pansy for being so concerned...ha ha. I also stopped by a local trailer shop this morning to look at one of these tongue extensions...they said the same...that trailer will pull better than your tag axle with 10,000 lbs.

I see on other diesel forums where guys are pulling their "pulling" trucks with trucks like mine, and those are heavy flatbed trailes with 8000+lb trucks on them. They all brag about pulling this and pulling that...and you guys seem to have a more conservative approach. It is refreshing. Thanks again for the advice. I will post my experiences once I do decide what I am going to do.

Maybe it is time to step up to a Peterbilt...ha

[Hook'em Horns!]

The braggers are right, there <u>is</u> enough motor and tranny to pull it...just not enough suspension and brakes to control and <u>stop</u> it.

[jimmy]

The trucks built these days will all pull WAY more than they can handle or stop in a bad situation. Years ago the limkiting factor was engine and people bought larger, lower geared trucks to pull their trailers. Now the engine power and ability to move a load has been upped a tremendous amount.
I know a ton of rodeo and horse show friends and they have all gotten larger trailers and have seen their 1 tons get hammered and not last as long as they used to. They go through brakes and u-joints and even rear ends.
Most are opting for F450/550 or GM 4500/5500.
If you tow 30K per year it would seem you might want to be adequately trucked to assure you are safe.

[DRAG]

Speaking of stopping...do you all remember pulling heavy loads with the older 2500 and 3500 pickups? Sure the power has gone up, but the braking capacity has been GREATLY improved. I pulled an 11K lb loaded and wet boat with my 96 5.7 2500 and it wouldn't stop in double the distance this new Chevy will. After that I had a 99 V10 F250 and stopping and steering that truck with a decent load was downright dangerous. I feel all aspects have improved greatly.

Jimmy, I see you haul a decent size trailer and probably a few horses at a time...what do you think that weighs?

[Hook'em Horns!]

The older trucks had chronic rear axle seal leaks on all those drum brakes contaminating the brake linings. Oil impregnated linings have no friction and thus no brakes.
Rear disc brakes are the best thing to come along in many decades.

[88beast]

try to get a sponsor for a flatbed on the truck and add a hitch to that with another sponsor and youll be looking good too

[Blk88GT]

88beast:

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"