Hey, some of y'all answered some questions before and I appreciate it, got some more.
1. why are auto's considered preferable for towing? Aren't most big rigs manuals?
2. Why are autos rated much higher for towing capacity? Just because of the torque converter?
3. Do the ratings mean anything? The 08 F450 was touted as being to tow 24,500lbs if you had the auto and the 4.88 rear end. Now that the 4.88 is no longer offered the 4.30 rear end is magically rated to tow that amount, a 4000lb bump.
4. Is there a revised tow rating chart that has the new ratings now that the 4.88 rear is no longer offered?
Auto trans for class 8 trucks are really expensive to buy and also repair.My son-in-law has one and it cost him 3500 for a very cheap module, most of cost was diagnostic. I think big rig companies and manufactures think drivers know how to select proper gears where they don't know the skill of drivers in pick-ups.
In my truck I prefer an auto .
1. why are auto's considered preferable for towing?
1] Much more torque available to get the load moving, so much less likely to fry the clutch trying to start up. So even a relative newbee can quickly learn to drive a truck and tow a trailer with an automagic tranny.
2] The tranny is computer controlled, so it's almost impossible for the driver to lug the engine. When the engine is in danger of starting to lug, the computer will downshift the tranny.
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Aren't most big rigs manuals?
Yes. But it takes a lot of training and skill to drive one right - without burning up the clutch or lugging the engine.
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2. Why are autos rated much higher for towing capacity? Just because of the torque converter?
Probably. The torque converter almost doubles the torque available from an engine, so it's much easier to get a heavy load moving if you have an automagic tranny.
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3. Do the ratings mean anything? The 08 F450 was touted as being to tow 24,500lbs if you had the auto and the 4.88 rear end. Now that the 4.88 is no longer offered the 4.30 rear end is magically rated to tow that amount, a 4000lb bump.
The tow ratings are a sham, but the underlying weight capacities are legit. The F-450 pickup had a GCWR of 33,000 pounds. That means that you should be able to gross up to 33,000 pounds without becoming a rolling roadblock when climbing a decent grade.
Since the GCWR is 33,000 pounds, if the "tow rating" is 24,500 that means the wet and loaded tow vehicle weighs only 8,500 pounds. It will be a rare wet and loaded F-450 pickup that weighs only 8,500 pounds before you tie onto the trailer. Full tank of diesel, a skinny driver, 5er hitch would be the minimum, and if your truck is a CrewCab 4x4 PSD then you'll probably weigh more than 8,500 before you tie onto the trailer.
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4. Is there a revised tow rating chart that has the new ratings now that the 4.88 rear is no longer offered?
No, because the GCWR is still 33,000 pounds.
But using a tow rating table is really dumb. To do it right, you need to weigh your own tow vehicle, loaded the way you really plan to travel, including tools, spares, extra fluids, cooler, passengers, driver, trailer hitch, bedliner, and a full tank of diesel. Subtract the wet and loaded weight of the tow vehicle from 33,000 pounds and the answer is your actual tow rating. Probably somewhere around 23,000 pounds.
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My Sierra Blanca is a '99.5 PSD CrewCab hot-rod Towing Machine! BTS tranny; TurboRamAir intake and 4" stainless turbo-back exhaust; DP-Tuner tunes flashed into an Edge Evolution tuner; ISSPRO EV gauges and TTM; AIC. I special-ordered it new and plan to drive it until it quits.
Up until the mid 90's manuals were superior because the automatics were very failure prone if subjected to much towing, especially GM's TH700R4. They would get hot, shoot the dipstick out, and spay tranny fluid all over the engine compartment which caught fire in certain instances. I think they recalled them and installed a locking dipstick. Ford was horrible too, with the OD flashing light problem. Nowadays we have reliable auto transmissions. With locking torque converters a manual has no real advantage anymore other than saving some weight.
I looked at a big rig automatic at the shop a couple weeks ago, removed for a clutch job. It is a manual with computer controlled worm drive motors in place of a shifter.
4. Is there a revised tow rating chart that has the new ratings now that the 4.88 rear is no longer offered?
No, because the GCWR is still 33,000 pounds.
But the gcwr was 33000 only for the f450 with 4.88 and auto transmission. With the 4.30 and auto the weight rating was 29000, tow rating of 20,500. Then, once the 4.88 was no longer offered magically the 4.30 with auto had a gcwr of 33000 and got the 24,500 tow rating. Since they bumped up its gcwr by 4000, I figured they maybe re-did the other configurations.
Since they bumped up its gcwr by 4000, I figured they maybe re-did the other configurations.
There are no "other configurations" in the F-450 pickup. They all have long bed, diesel engine, automatic tranny. And the only rear axle available beginning with Job 3 in January 2008 is 4.30 limited slip. The only GCWR available is 33,000 pounds.
F-450 chassis cab trucks still have options for gas engines, manual transmission, cab-to-axle (CA) measurement, and rear axle ratio, both open axle and limited slip. Available GCWR includes 26,000, 28,000, and 30,000, depending on engine, transmission, and rear axle. You can still get the 4.88 rear axle ratio on a chassis cab truck, but not on a pickup.
Before the Job 3 changes, the F-450 pickup had 3,000 pounds more GCWR than the chassis cab. After Job 3, it has even more. But no, I don't know how the engineers came up with the additional GCWR for the pickup.
I think in all actual a stick is prefered for towing, but auto's are bought because people do not know better.
Our y2k dually has grossed over 30K for many a mile. In its 200K service we have had two clutches replaced, but never a complete melt down.
If it were an auto we would have been replacing them every 25K.
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1996 F-250 extended cab long box five speed. Home made Tymar, 203 Stat, 60 gal in bed fuel cell, 315/75's, no cat, no muffler, ebpv welded open 3" to 3" DP, Babies. 255K, still chugging, and still smoking when cold.
UPDATED 8/1/08 Replace so far. 1 LUK flywheel+clutch, 2 thermostats, 2 set of brakes, 1 set of calipers, 5 CPS, 3 sets of tires, 2 Transfer pumps, 1 Injector modual, 1 Computer, 2 Alt, 2 sets of batteries, 1 Water pump, 6 Belts, 1 PS hose, 2 Sets ball joints, 2 set u-joints, 2 carrier bearing, 2 Speed sensors, 1 oil pres sender, 1 temp sender, 4 sets of e-break cables, 1 front fuel tank, 2 rear fuel tanks, 2 set of glow plugs, 6 Glow plug relays, Oil galley o-rings, Turbo pedistal o-rings, EBPV o-rings, 3 sets of Injector O-rings, 1 Vac-pump, 1 new carpet.Total $$$ in repairs v/s miles driven = 3.0 cents per mile. Add fuel to that it jumps to 14.8 cents per mile over the life of the truck.
There are no "other configurations" in the F-450 pickup. They all have long bed, diesel engine, automatic tranny. And the only rear axle available beginning with Job 3 in January 2008 is 4.30 limited slip. The only GCWR available is 33,000 pounds.
The F450 pickup is available with a manual transmission. I was wondering if Ford has changed it's gcwr along with changing the auto/4.30 combo, which went from 29k gcwr to 33k gcwr to maintain the "hallowed" 24,500lb tow rating. Also if Ford has changed the ratings for the other trucks in the line-up, mostly F350 drw.
I think in all actual a stick is prefered for towing, but auto's are bought because people do not know better.
Our y2k dually has grossed over 30K for many a mile. In its 200K service we have had two clutches replaced, but never a complete melt down.
If it were an auto we would have been replacing them every 25K.
Yeah, I'm pretty positive I will wait until I can find a good manual at a reasonable price. I drove an F350DRW auto and wasn't too impressed. Drove an F450 with manual and 4.88 rear and loved it. Probably shoulda bought it on the spot but didn't and then it sold not long after.
If anyone knows a good deal on a preferably black manual '08 F450 let a brotha know!
The F450 pickup is available with a manual transmission.
You're right. but GCWR is only 27,000 pounds with a hand shaker.
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Also if Ford has changed the ratings for the other trucks in the line-up, mostly F350 drw.
No. With diesel engine the stock GCWR is 23,500. With the TowBoss pkg GCWR goes up to 26,000 pounds. TowBoss pkg requires diesel engine and automatic tranny, so the max GCWR available with stick shift is 23,500.
Tow ratings are definately questionable. Our biggest beef with the OEMs is that they give different tow ratings for TTs and 5th wheels. That means that they either take stability into the equation or base it on tongue weight (10-15% of total trailer weight).
Both the problem of tongue weight and stability have been solved by the RV industry. Sway control and weight distribution hitches have been around for years.
On our video we show a Dodge Intrepid towing a 35' Airstream (approx. 10,000lbs.). It's not a sham. The dealer who set up that rig took it all over Canada. Never any issues.
So when will the auto industry get on board and stop forcing us to by 12mpg vehicles to tow with? Probably never. Too much profit in the big trucks. We're on our own.
Ron is stepping off his soap box.
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Ron Estrada
Hensley Mfg., Inc.
Home of the Hensley Arrow and TrailerSaver
800-410-6580
Last edited by Hensley Ron : 06-10-2008 at 03:52 PM.
Reason: bad spelling (slow down, son!)
Our biggest beef with the OEMs is that they give different tow ratings for TTs and 5th wheels. That means that they either take stability into the equation or base it on tongue weight (10-15% of total trailer weight).
Neither one.
Fifth-wheel tow rating is simply GCWR minus the shipping weight of the tow vehicle with only a skinny driver and no options or payload. That simplystic calculation assumes GVWR will not be a factor.
TT tow rating is the same thing, except often limited by the weight limits of the receiver.
Examples:
2008 F-250 diesel CrewCab 4x4 with 3.73 rear axle:
GCWR = 23,000
5er tow rating = 15,200, so the truck with driver weighs 8,300.
TT tow rating = 12,500, which is the limits of the standard receiver with a weight-distributing hitch.
Now, back up a few years when Ford's 5er tow ratings were really ridiculous -
2000 diesel CrewCab 4x4 F-250 with 3.73 rear axle:
GCWR = 20,000
5er tow rating = 13,000, so the truck with driver weighs 7,000.
TT tow rating = 10,000, which is the limits of the optional Ford receiver with a weight-distributing hitch.
That makes sense. OEM receivers have always been on the light side. That's why companies like Putnam still do such good business. I always recommend to my full-timer customers that they invest the $300 or so to upgrade that receiver. Too much precious cargo to take the risk.
I see somebody posted the video link. You can just go to the Hensley home page to get that, too.
Here's the link to Can-Am RV in Ontario. They outfit small cars to tow trailers. Check out some of the combos (no, I'm not affiliated except that they sell the Arrow). Just interesting stuff.
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Ron Estrada
Hensley Mfg., Inc.
Home of the Hensley Arrow and TrailerSaver
800-410-6580
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