Soon to Road Full Time W Old Truck

[geekgranny]

Howdy All. Newbie to forum but certainly not to diesels and most certainly not to my beloved '90 7.3 L F250 stretch cab/long bed "Oscar" who's shared my homestead and many a good times with me for just a month short of 19 years. He's just an adolescent at < 74 K miles. Wish I could say the same for my self.



Hubby and I are getting ready to start RVing (hopefully) full time. We are basically starting from scratch. Funds are pretty limited for start-up and will be after we dump the "ranch"; keeping the "front 40", undeveloped < acre though as small anchor/storage/nest egg/parking/legal residence, etc.

He thinks he wants a motor home pulling a toad. I want a 5th wheel toy hauler and to keep cost down in the beginning pulling it with my "Oscar". I won't go into all the reasons for my decisions other than I need some extra room for a portable spa, my worm composter for some plants, some carry along plants, an exercise machine, doggie X-pen for inclement weather, place to get away from each other, I do all the work and maintenance and make most if not all of the decisions. I manage the finances and know what we can and should afford.

Besides all that I really, really, really don't want to part with Oscar and he looks and drives great and talk about fuel mileage!!!!!!!!!

Surely there are some upgrades additions that can be added to Oscar to help him better handle the towing job.

Here's some of his info:

1990 F250 7.3 L Navistar Diesel V-8 Auto Transmission, Anti-Lock Brakes
No Tow Package or Transmission Cooler
Type GVW X 259
GVWR 8800
Rear Axle 35 (book list as 6250 but truck plate says 6084)
Front 3965
Ratio 4.10
Springs KA

-----Couple of issues. After wood's rats ate wiring (three autos that winter at $10 K damage) with complete harness replacement have had a mysterious slow short that affects the glow plugs that keep burning out and battery drain and somehow connected with block heating too so starting at below 70 F is difficult..... need to get that resolved. So far I haven't been able to find ANYONE capable of finding the short with $100's spent in process. I live SW of Dallas. Any suggestions.

-----No Air Bags. Are there after market air bags for this model truck?

What do you guys think about my keeping Oscar and going with a 5th wheel toy hauler? Can I increase Oscars towing capacity?

BTW... I have the experience of "burning up" a transmission. When Oscar was but a wee lad I pulled a 32' trailer to KY. Did add some kind of supplement braking system for trailer but didn't know I needed transmission cooling for truck. Leaving point, a couple hundred miles out or so in KY transmission went on truck, middle of night, three 200 lb dogs with me, one on IV's (I took the passenger seat out so three fit inside truck with me), luckily I had big generator in bed of truck but ran truck with AC to keep dogs cool till could get towed to camping area with hook ups next day. Still within extended warranty BUT...... neither I nor the Ford guy thought to add a cooling package to transmission when it was torn down... SUPER BIG DUH especially on his part.

Thanks for all the help you all can give. I'm in hoggie heaven here at this forum already. granny

[Steve250]

You could add a turbo charger like an ATS or Banks system to your truck and that would definitely help.

[gpedersen]

i assume you mean air bags for the suspension? i am sure they are available and will be simple enough to add. based on the towing capacity i feel on my unmodified truck, i really question your ability to tow a toy hauler (ie 36 ft +) with that truck. i'm sure you could do it on the flats but you won't be happy in the hills. as already said, you will probably want to add a turbo and certainly put on a good sized tranny cooler. you may consider adding a larger tranny pan and diff cover as well. generally, a transmission temp guage and egt guage are going to be recommended. i would think a downpipe and four inch exhaust are in order. so the bills are starting to add up depending on whether you are going to do this work or have it done. you can probably post in the IDI forum and get a grocery list of these upgrades and ball park prices to do these upgrades. i think your choice will depend on your travel plans. are you going to do limited towing and just get to a location and mainly stay there or will you be on the move constantly. you will need to have a hard look at what you want to do. i think you should look at limiting your overall trailer weigh to about 8000 gross and search for units based on that. it's hard to find units without slides now and they add weight. the mods will still need to be done to the truck. remember that they will sell you a heavy trailer and always asure you that your truck is more than sufficient to pull it. they aren't around to help push once you are out on the road. i know some will disagree with my weight limit but that's my 2 cents.

[geekgranny]

Thanks. Keep um coming, please. The air bags I was talking about are crash air bags; seems like I looked up one time this model F250 could be retro-fitted with driver side crash bag. Of course I'll do lots of research. This forum is the best place to start.

We don't need anything huge. Hubby is near-total inside person; I'm near-total outside. He loves living in our Eden in the woods but spends 99.0% of his waking hours (and most of his sleeping time) in his recliner/command center with computer monitor/keyboard/tv/etc./house controls within easy reach and 72" RP HDTV with HDTV also as computer monitor also (Helps to have a geek spouse to set these things up for ya) He rarely needs to leave his small space except for a few essentials like... well you know. BTW.... he does work a couple of days a week and TA DA ................ gals you WILL LOVE THIS.... HE DOES DO ALL THE COOKING AND GROCERY SHOPPING!!!!!!!!!!! Yet he is pretty much still a good ole Texas Boy (at age 73).

At any rate as long as I can have that extra space the toy hauler offers we should be okay. I would want an AC ducted garage and definitely a powered queen bed in garage like some models offer or replace the kitchen booth with a Murphy bed. But otherwise a smaller puller or 5th wheel should work out fine. Surely would need washer/dryer hookups. I'll be out exploring, tending to plants, running with dog, visiting with people, making new friends, gabbing, exploring, hiking, etc., etc., etc., ......"never met a stranger"................

We really don't know what our travels or sit and/or stays will be like........

My truck has less than 74 K miles and only 30 K on the transmission. I know its complete history. Paint, except hood, is great. Interior excellent. I don't mind investing several thousand to do whatever it takes for safety and comfort to get us on the road faster with the greatest over all savings.

granny

[short_stuff]

Granny, I agree with gpedersen. With the size of the trailer that you are looking to haul (based on your wants/needs) you are very quickly approaching dually territory. As much as you love your beloved 90 Oscar, there are certain limitations that you won't be able to overcome while spending the $$$ to outfit your truck. You might be better off looking for a 99-2003 F350 Dually 7.3 l that will have the inside airbags, the towing capacity, and the turbo that was mentioned. Or, spend a little more and get an even newer one.
One of the many items that you didn't mention was the truck's brakes. The newer super duty trucks have the transmission, suspension, brakes, and horsepower to adequately handle the size of toy hauler that it looks like you'll need. Especially for that 72 inch HDTV. just my .02 cents worth

on edit: where in Texas are you located?

short_stuff

[gpedersen]

i hear ya. your list of what you want is pretty specific, so i would do the research on the trailer side and figure out what your minimum size/weight is going to be. i have looked at a lot of trailers but i'm no expert. as an example, i checked Fleetwood RV and looked at their smallest toy hauler 09 models in travel trailer and 5er. they are grossing (GVWR) at 14500 lbs and 13800 lbs respectively. is there lighter out there? probably but generally speaking, if you want the toy hauler sized unit, the weights are going to be up there. your question is about whether you can use your 1990 7.3 litre f250 as a tow vehicle. you will need to do these mods to it for sure and even then i am not sure you would be happy and comfortable behind the wheel if you are thinking about doing lots of touring. i think you are going to be way under-truck for what you want to pull. i wouldn't spend any money adding a driver side air bag imho. i would upgrade the truck when you decide on the trailer and retire oscar to the farm.

[DonWarkentin]

If 8,000 lbs gvwr is about your limit, as gpedersen suggested, then you are looking at about an 18 foot hyperlite toyhauler. 2009 RedLine Hyperlite 180FKE Floor Plan & Specs : Fleetwood RV

[geekgranny]

Points well taken all. Thanks. Hubby will be thrilled getting rid of Oscar. He has always hated "him" for some reason. Last I told him I was planning on putting truck up for sale pretty immediately on Craig's List. I haven't told him I've been considering other options. At least selling truck will eliminate one factor and help simplify my decisions by cutting down on choices. I'd like to get us on the road by end of year even if house isn't sold. granny

[gpedersen]

good call. best of luck with all your plans and i'm sure everything will come together.

[OMCUSNR]

Have you been to any of the RV sites? I'm not sure I'd "full time" with a toy hauler. It isn't just a trailer now, it's going to be your full time home, and that has some construction of the trailer considerations. You really need to research your trailer now.

Where are you going? Are you going to cover the whole US (Alaska/Canada?) A full time trailer needs additional insulation and considerations for environment (humidity, heat/cooling, etc.). The toy hauler is going to leak air around the garage, and have a large open area that will be hard to climate control. One thing you mentioned is a "spa". Hauling fluids is heavy, and if not baffeled, dangerous. You get a tank of water sloshing around, and you've got trouble. Are you going to haul enough water to keep the spa charged, or will you fill/drain at every stop?

If you or your hubby have health problems, especially in the area of breathing, you need to consider what the trailer is made of and how these will affect your health in the long term.

With what I've read that you want, I think you are looking at a F-450 at a bare minimum, and most likely a 550 for a tow rig.

Sorry to rain on your parade a bit, but I think you need to look at some compromises, especially if money is tight at this time.

OMC

[geekgranny]

Well money is tight for many reasons and our house probably won't sell fast. Mortgage, etc eat our lunch of course. Leasing out house it is pretty much out of the question. I won't go into details. It cost a lot to keep the house open and operational. It is open plan so moving to one area of house is difficult to do, etc. Besides we are ready to DO IT.... DH is READY!!!!!!! And we now don't have a HERD of GIANT house dogs (MASTIFFS); lost our last one couple of months ago.

Gosh no... no filled spa. It will either be one of those foam round ones or blow up inflatables; just to have something to soak in (our marriage counselor) with a couple of jets. They don't measure up to my super duper Aries but will do in a pinch for extended stops.

I spend extended periods in tropical jungle, worked outside all this summer in 100+ temp NC Texas, as most years, experienced in extremes of climates (I can hardly stand being inside) BUT DH tolerates little beyond temperate range. In consideration of his comfort we will be following the best weather around. I see your point about air leaking and toy haulers and they really don't measure up in the aesthetic area either.

Neither of us have serious health issues (I'm considerably younger than he) unless you consider the sprain to my right arm a couple of weeks ago when I slipped at bottom end of my pool while acid washing/angle grinding and landed on elbow slamming shoulder into my ear spraining several muscles upper arm (dominant arm)...... still hurts and is restricting me a lot. He has rotator cuff syndrome and completely torn muscles in both arms so is pretty restricted in a lot of activities and lifting of weights. Considering genetics we could both make it to 100.

I've re-thunk keeping Oscar and still wavering. As I've said I'm ready to put several thousand into him. His engine has always been very solid and strong. I've been looking for weeks at 5th wheels (non toy haulers) and spent considerable time last night looking at smaller ones which would be fine for our needs and have considerable advantages especially in being able fit into parking places. Not paying a lot of the expenses keeping this house open for the added months we would stay here rather than hitting the road sooner could add to funds for a newer truck.

Before Y2K I hauled my own diesel for storage in a tank at home using a 250 gal tank in bed of truck; several trips from supply to my tank at home totaling ~800 gallons. First fill was way over GVWR ..... boy do I know what that feels like!!!!! Thank goodness the drive was only a few miles on back roads.

Please help me here. First I can't recall what my truck actually weighs. Extras right now might be spare tire and bed liner. But GVWR=8800 Lbs.... Rear=6084 Lbs.... Front=3965

So if I added=extra weight (1) tranny cooling=absolutely necessary and/or (2) extra springs=maybe and/or (3) turbo charger=not really necessary

We are tall but not large 190 and 140 lbs; dog 80 lbs. Wouldn't be carrying anything significantly heavy. BTW... DH's 72" RP HDTV weighs 77 lbs but it's really too big for such small quarters so the 40" Sony HD LCD will be more than adequate and < 40 lbs.

The book that came with my truck has some charts for GCWR and such. For GCWR for my truck, i.e. Auto Transmission 4.10 Axle Ratio it has three(3) ratings:

Maximum Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)

Max GCWR Lb = 10,000 Lbs
Trailer Wt Lbs = 0-2,000 Lbs
Max Front Area Sq Ft = Trailer frontal area not to exceed base vehicle frontal area.
..............

Max GCWR Lb = 13,000 Lbs
Trailer Wt Lbs = 2,000-3,500
Max Front Area Sq Ft = 60
.......................
Max GCWR Lb = 14,000 Lbs
Trailer Wt Lbs =3,500-9,100
Max Front Area Sq Ft = 60

So can someone please explain these numbers to me and why there are three different sets? How do I determine where my truck fits in? Thanks for help.

[DonWarkentin]

Look at the bottom of the driver's side door post to see if there is a plate there that will tell you which gcwr your truck has.

You told us already that you have 8,800 gvwr. I would suggest that you go to a truck scale and weigh oscar with a full tank of fuel. Then add the weight of you and your husband and whatever else you plan to carry with you in the truck. Whatever difference is left between the 8,800 lb gvwr and the truck weight with fuel, passengers, etc. is the weight remaining for hitch weight. Fifth wheel trailers usually have between 15-25% of gvwr as hitch weight. Take 20% as average. So multiply the hitch weight that you have available by 5 to get the maximum gvwr of the trailer that you can handle. With f250 trucks pulling fifth wheel trailers, most often, the hitch weight is the limiting factor rather than the gcwr.

I would suggest that you call Brian at Brian's Truck Shop (BTS) Brians Truck Shop to discuss what modifications you will need to the automatic transmission. I am pretty sure that you will need a larger transmission fluid cooler. You may need some other modifications as well.

You may need extra springs or air bag suspension. It all depends upon how heavy the trailer is and if the truck is still level with the trailer hooked up.

I'm guessing that you have about 180-190 horsepower; so it depends upon how fast you want to go up the hills pulling the trailer.

[OMCUSNR]

Best advice I can give you is to shop your trailer first. This will be your new home, so DON'T BE IN A HURRY. Look at floor plans, and how they fit you (make sure the kitchen & bath are available with the slide in). Go visit RV stores, don't do it on-line. Next advice: buy it used. There are allot of good, well maintained trailers out there and buying used from a reputable dealer or good private party (make sure they kept maint records) will save you thousands of dollars. Have either of you really trailered for extended periods or lived on a submarine / boat? Space is going to become critical, and mastiffs aren't going to help.

After you find the trailer, then see if Oscar can cut it. My feeling is that he can't even with $10k put in. The trans & brakes, just aren't there to tow a full time rig. At the least, you'll want a turbo, 4" exhaust, a new trans and trans cooler (you can't get enough of that), and gauges. Probably a tuner / chip is going to be needed too.

All I can say is take your time. If you rush off, you'll waste a bunch of money. Good luck, and happy hunting!

OMC

[mgraveman]

Originally Posted by geekgranny

Well money is tight for many reasons and our house probably won't sell fast. Mortgage, etc eat our lunch of course. Leasing out house it is pretty much out of the question. I won't go into details. It cost a lot to keep the house open and operational. It is open plan so moving to one area of house is difficult to do, etc. Besides we are ready to DO IT.... DH is READY!!!!!!! And we now don't have a HERD of GIANT house dogs (MASTIFFS); lost our last one couple of months ago.

Gosh no... no filled spa. It will either be one of those foam round ones or blow up inflatables; just to have something to soak in (our marriage counselor) with a couple of jets. They don't measure up to my super duper Aries but will do in a pinch for extended stops.

I spend extended periods in tropical jungle, worked outside all this summer in 100+ temp NC Texas, as most years, experienced in extremes of climates (I can hardly stand being inside) BUT DH tolerates little beyond temperate range. In consideration of his comfort we will be following the best weather around. I see your point about air leaking and toy haulers and they really don't measure up in the aesthetic area either.

Neither of us have serious health issues (I'm considerably younger than he) unless you consider the sprain to my right arm a couple of weeks ago when I slipped at bottom end of my pool while acid washing/angle grinding and landed on elbow slamming shoulder into my ear spraining several muscles upper arm (dominant arm)...... still hurts and is restricting me a lot. He has rotator cuff syndrome and completely torn muscles in both arms so is pretty restricted in a lot of activities and lifting of weights. Considering genetics we could both make it to 100.

I've re-thunk keeping Oscar and still wavering. As I've said I'm ready to put several thousand into him. His engine has always been very solid and strong. I've been looking for weeks at 5th wheels (non toy haulers) and spent considerable time last night looking at smaller ones which would be fine for our needs and have considerable advantages especially in being able fit into parking places. Not paying a lot of the expenses keeping this house open for the added months we would stay here rather than hitting the road sooner could add to funds for a newer truck.

Before Y2K I hauled my own diesel for storage in a tank at home using a 250 gal tank in bed of truck; several trips from supply to my tank at home totaling ~800 gallons. First fill was way over GVWR ..... boy do I know what that feels like!!!!! Thank goodness the drive was only a few miles on back roads.

Please help me here. First I can't recall what my truck actually weighs. Extras right now might be spare tire and bed liner. But GVWR=8800 Lbs.... Rear=6084 Lbs.... Front=3965

So if I added=extra weight (1) tranny cooling=absolutely necessary and/or (2) extra springs=maybe and/or (3) turbo charger=not really necessary

We are tall but not large 190 and 140 lbs; dog 80 lbs. Wouldn't be carrying anything significantly heavy. BTW... DH's 72" RP HDTV weighs 77 lbs but it's really too big for such small quarters so the 40" Sony HD LCD will be more than adequate and < 40 lbs.

The book that came with my truck has some charts for GCWR and such. For GCWR for my truck, i.e. Auto Transmission 4.10 Axle Ratio it has three(3) ratings:

Maximum Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)

Max GCWR Lb = 10,000 Lbs
Trailer Wt Lbs = 0-2,000 Lbs
Max Front Area Sq Ft = Trailer frontal area not to exceed base vehicle frontal area.
..............

Max GCWR Lb = 13,000 Lbs
Trailer Wt Lbs = 2,000-3,500
Max Front Area Sq Ft = 60
.......................
Max GCWR Lb = 14,000 Lbs
Trailer Wt Lbs =3,500-9,100
Max Front Area Sq Ft = 60

So can someone please explain these numbers to me and why there are three different sets? How do I determine where my truck fits in? Thanks for help.

Granny, I've owned the following trucks:

1981 F250
1978 F250
1982 F350 Dually
1994 F350 dually
1994 F350 Dually (current truck)
2006 GMC 3500 Dually (current)

Te older trucks had poor braking systems, troublesome automatic transmissions, and were low on power. I wouldn't even consider pulling that trailer without a dually. It's just too much weight. I would also not pull it with the older trucks. My 82 really strained the one time I pulled about 12k lbs, and I finally got rid of it because it couldn't handle it. My 1994 is nice, but the 2006 is incredible. I have lots of power and it handles wonderfully. I think the newer fords handle about as well. If I were going full time, there's no question in my mind that I'd want to be in my newer truck.

Just test drive one, you'll see what I mean.

[js2941]

GeekGranny, There's an RV show in Ft Worth this weekend. Excellent place to window shop.