Towing a car hauler w/living quarters?

[armorer]

I am looking at upgrading my car hauler from a small 20' enclosed tag to a gooseneck with living quarters and am concerned about the weight issues. I have a 97 F350 CrewCab 2wd DRW with the 7.3L PowerStroke, auto and 4.10 gears, so that's a 20k GCWR. Currently living in the very flat midwest, so not a lot of hills to deal with right now, but hoping to move back east in the next few years, so it is still a concern. I am looking at 44-48' trailers but what I have been told recently is that the weight listed on the trailers info plate is for an empty trailer of that size - so before any options, like the living quarters, extra height, canopies, etc. is added! Never mind the car, ATV, tools, etc. The plates on a few trailers I have looked at say empty weights are in the 7k-8k range - so 10k+ with the quarters. All my stuff, including car, is about 5k. I see these big trailers towed by "regular" 350/3500 series trucks at the tracks all the time, so my question is, are they all overloaded? Half the sellers say "tows great with 350 dually", half say "you need a bigger truck to haul this." No one seems to be able to provide a scale weight for their trailer, so I am basically stuck guessing at this point. I like the truck I have, so I'd prefer to keep it if it has the ability to tow the bigger trailer. Any advice? I'd prefer to avoid "try it and see." Thanks!

[SilveradoHauler]

I pull a 34 ft gooseneck horse trailer with living quarters. Around 15 to 16,000 pounds loaded.

A 44 ft is real heavy when loaded up with the car, tools and other items.

Yup, you will overheat transmissions and start an upgrade program to reduce heat in the transmission and you will begin replacing the stock trans with built units, like the BTS.

Read my signature, especially the part about upgrading to a Freightlliner or Peterbilt. My F450 has 4.88 gears and 19.5 tires. Still eats transmissions.

And, read my earlier thread "Snake Bit and Gun Shy with my ATS" in the "Upgrades and Aftermarket 7.3L Engine" forum area.

And, yes, most folks pulling big trailers with 350's are overloaded. This is why some states (Mine included) are pushing to require over 10,000 GVW trucks (includes a lot of pickups!) to have DOT numbers and stop at scales. Would be a boondogle backup at the scales, but the only thing the enforcement officials here think about is revenue generation.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by armorer

I am looking at 44-48' trailers but what I have been told recently is that the weight listed on the trailers info plate is for an empty trailer of that size -

You've been listening to the wrong folks.

The "info plate" should include GVWR. That's the max weight of the trailer when loaded to the gills. The specs on their website should tell you the "curb weight" of the empty trailer as well as the GVWR of the trailer.

Your wet and loaded tow vehicle is probably going to weigh around 8,000 pounds, so the max weight of any trailer you can tow without busting the 20k GCWR is about 12,000 pounds.

If you want to hang onto that truck, then you need to downsize the size of your race trailer to one with a GVWR of about 12,000 pounds. There are some available, but none of them are over 40 feel long.

For example, here is the link to the specs of the Pace Shadow GT race trailers:
Pace American - Shadow GT Racing Trailers

Scroll way out towards the right side of the screen until you see model SCXF8534TA4 or SCXG8534TA4. (Those two are identical except the one with the "F" in the model number has a fifth wheel kingpin and the one with the "G" is a gooseneck.

That's a 34' race trailer with optional LQ. It has a GVWR of 12,000 pounds, and a curb (empty) weight of 6,648, so a payload of 5,352 pounds. That should be enough payload for a minimal LQ pkg plus one race car and a few spares. It is 25'8" long on the lower deck, so it will be crowded in the trailer with the race car on board.

What you really want is the model SCXF (or SCXG) 8548TTA4. That's a 48' race trailer with a curb weight of 8,440 and a GVWR of 18,000 for net payload over 9,500 pounds. But OOPS! We overloaded your old pickup. You need an F-450 to tow that monster without being overloaded.

[armorer]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

You've been listening to the wrong folks.

The "info plate" should include GVWR. That's the max weight of the trailer when loaded to the gills. The specs on their website should tell you the "curb weight" of the empty trailer as well as the GVWR of the trailer.

I meant the "curb weight", not the GVWR. The listed curb weight appears to be for a trailer of that size with no options. So that 7800lb curb weight for a trailer was before any options, like the entire LQ setup.

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

If you want to hang onto that truck, then you need to downsize the size of your race trailer to one with a GVWR of about 12,000 pounds. There are some available, but none of them are over 40 feel long.

For example, here is the link to the specs of the Pace Shadow GT race trailers:
Pace American - Shadow GT Racing Trailers

Scroll way out towards the right side of the screen until you see model SCXF8534TA4 or SCXG8534TA4. (Those two are identical except the one with the "F" in the model number has a fifth wheel kingpin and the one with the "G" is a gooseneck.

That's a 34' race trailer with optional LQ. It has a GVWR of 12,000 pounds, and a curb (empty) weight of 6,648, so a payload of 5,352 pounds. That should be enough payload for a minimal LQ pkg plus one race car and a few spares. It is 25'8" long on the lower deck, so it will be crowded in the trailer with the race car on board.

What you really want is the model SCXF (or SCXG) 8548TTA4. That's a 48' race trailer with a curb weight of 8,440 and a GVWR of 18,000 for net payload over 9,500 pounds. But OOPS! We overloaded your old pickup. You need an F-450 to tow that monster without being overloaded.

Yeah, those won't be big enough so I supposed the short answer is, get a bigger truck. Thanks for the info!

[SilveradoHauler]

Go bigger than a 450, mine is a 450 and not big enough.

And, if you have not pulled a gooseneck, be in for a learning experience vs. a tag or bumper pull trailer.

Gooseneck trailers, especially the long ones, do not track the real wheels as a bumper pull does. So your trailer wheels swing way over to the inside of a turn. And run over things. And tear up the sides of the trailer.

When you get a gooseneck, go to a big empty lot, set up cones, and practice turning and backing. Watch the wheel track of the trailer on tight turns.

Put big mirrors on the truck, and a pair of wide angle mirrors. Look at how semi's set up their mirrors, and watch them in traffic when they make tight turns, watch the trailer wheel tracking compared to the tractor wheel tracking.

[BlueMuleTrucking]

if you're serious about the investment of a trailer, I'd get a good truck such as a Western Hauler International or Freightliner or something along those lines. It will last a lot better then 3-550.

[blckdog1]

The GVWR listed on the trailer I.D. plate is the maximum weight that the trailer can carry.

I have a 1996 F-350 four door DRW truck with the 7.3 power stroke diesel running 4:10 gears and an automatic transmission just like yours but I installed the Banks Stage III inter-cooler system that comes with a different exhaust and chip that re-programed the ECM. These modifications doubled the horse power and the torque. I also had the automatic transmission rebuilt and beefed up and installed a larger transmission cooler and a transmission temperature gauge. I pull a 33' twin inboard cabin cruiser boat using a bumper hitch rated at 18,000 lbs made by draw tight. Most manufactures call for 10% of the overall trailer weight to be on the hitch but I only load mine to 1,400 lbs. I had to purchase a trailer tongue scale to get the tongue weight correct. I have weighed the truck, trailer, and boat and it weighs 24,854 partially loaded. The hitch is slightly overrated so I called the manufacture and they said that they had a fudge factor, they would not tell me what the fudge factor was but led me to believe that I was under it.

I use to pull this load 80 to 85 mph in Florida in the hottest part of the summer when the outside temperature was 102 degrees and I had over heating problems with the transmission and blow outs with the trailer tires. I have since slowed my speed to 65/70 mph and everything operates much properly. I also run electric brakes on all three axles.

My point is, if your total weight does not exceed 25,000 and if you are willing to modify the truck some you will be able to pull the trailer.

Good Luck!