Trojan T-105 6V batteries

[haul_n_horses2]

Well I am delighted in every way with my 4 Star trailer but the battery they used for house electric, load lamps and hydraulic disc brakes is a POS. I am considering replacing the battery with 4 6V Trojan T-105 golf cart batteries. These can be hooked in series to get the voltage up to 12 volts and in parallel to get the AmpHours up to 450! Difficult to achieve with automotive batteries. Does anybody have any experience with these batteries? Problems charging with an automotive alternator? etc. I considered using Commercial Optima Yellow Tops (same batteries as under the hood so I could potentially jump the truck from the trailer) but the capacity of these batteries is much lower. Battery Service Corp (outside of Chicago) quoted my $65.53 each with free delivery within a 75 mile radius. Heck of a deal as some alternative energy sites are quoting nearly $200 for the same battery. Pays to do your homework. Am I nuts?

[SteveRacer]

You're not nuts, but that type of battery needs special charging that an automotive alternator isn't set up for. I beleive the charging voltage is higher, and the charging needs to be smarter as to not overheat the batteries. There are chargers available from all the RV houses, as well as special alternators designed for just that purpose. None of this stuff is cheap.

It's nice on the PSD because if you don't already have dual alternators, you can buy the brackets and belt and such from Ford, and just adapt the new "special" alternator to the spot reserved for the dual. Still, a lot of work and not cheap.

Sorry.

-steve

[T_Bone]

Hi HnH2,

I didn't see where you have living quarters so is there a need for 450amp/hr capicity? T-105's are used in RV's with great results, best bang for the buck, and there you want 4 battery's if you boondock camp alot. I use four myself with room for 6 if I need them.

225amp/hrs is alot of battery coming from the T-105's. They have a higer discharge rate with more cycles than any other battery in it's class including the US2200 by 35%, (another popular 6v battery.)

The T-105 work well with any PWM charger, also called a smart charger. Use a charge isolator if you plan on using your TV charging system. If not then your TV battery will quickly recharge after starting the engine then shut the recharge to the aux battery's to a trickle charge.

Optima's are great if you don't want any off gassing while recharging, like in a tack room. Although they have a lower amp/hr rating, again are you really going to need the full capicity? Difine your needs first then choose. A Optima can be discharged completely dead without ruining the battery where a T-105 can only be discharged 50%.

I just bought T-105's a couple weeks ago for $71eh. A smoking good deal for here.





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[haul_n_horses2]

"Pays to do your homework." That is why I posted here. Steve, thanks for your input. I was concerned about the charging issue. Looks like two Group 31 Yellow tops may be the way to go. I really am not interested in a pricey second alternator install. Sealed batteries may be the way to go.

[haul_n_horses2]

T_Bone, Thank you for your reply. Very helpful. My battery box is on the outside front wall so the off gassing is not an issue. I leave the box open when charging. You are right that I need to define my needs. This battery needs to be charged with the alternator as well and I do not want to rely on it disconnected from the alternator for a long trip. May not have a place to recharge conveniently available. The maintenance on these batteries is much higher as well. I will probably go with the longest RC Optimas I can find.

[T_Bone]

Hi HnH2,

With a single yellow top Optima, you would last about 3days with pumping 50gal of water and using the lights at night for a couple hours each night, providing you change to flurescent lights (2amp/hrs and 6 times the light, about $35eh) and get rid of the filiment bulb lights (4amp/hrs per 2bulb lite) without recharging.

A furance is the next heavy amperage user.

Using two yellow tops, then I can't see where you would have a problem without recharging for a 6day stay.

This is with NO inverter usage. Inverters suck alot of battery power.




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[haul_n_horses2]

I do not live in the trailer. My wife and I decided that when we go to a show these weary old bones deserve a hotel. LOL. So we did not add living quarters to the trailer. However showing out of a trailer can use a fair amount of power as loading/unloading with high wattage halogen lamps can use a fair amount of juice. Usually the tow vehicle is hooked to the trailer and idling at these times but not always. I do have a compressor for the air-ride suspension on the trailer. This sometimes runs for quite a bit to get the tank up to 125psi pressure. Currently, the compressor will run the POS battery down to 50% charge after one prolonged fill. Hence the need for a better battery. The 200 amp alternator I installed can deliver the juice to the trailer but is not compatible with the Trojan batteries. Any suggestions on an Optima. I will have to measure the battery box to see what will fit.

[marcus59]

Hi,
Go with the T-105's. I changed over to them in my 5th wheel two years ago and they have been great. I have never had a problem with them charging. Also my trailer sits for three-four month at a time and they have never let me down.
Marc

[Willcamp2001]

I have a set of four of the 6v Trojans in my fifth wheel. They are great. I found they are more reliable that the Interstate 6v batteries that came with the current trailer. I have had the Trojans in two travel trailers (fifth wheels)now. They seem to take a charge easily, last longer than the 12 volt batteries that I have used before, and don't have the evaporation issues that the 12 volt batteries had. They are not constantly boiling down so they need service less often. These are kept on two solar panels all the time so they are not treated easily. My brother has the same setup, but with two 12 volt Optimas. He has to charge with his generator daily to keep up and doesn't even use his TV like I do. I also have only one alternator on my truck. It keeps up with no problems.

[haul_n_horses2]

Hmmm. Food for thought. I may call the company and see what they say about the alternator and charging. Mine gets left unused for much of the winter except in an emergency transporting a horse to the State veterinary clinic/hospital. I keep the charger in the battery box and connect every two weeks or so to keep it up to snuff, but once this winter I went 4-5 weeks without charging and the battery was essentially dead at 10 volts. Slowly brought it back to life with a good Schumacher charger.

[boatycall]

I have 6 in my trailer. You're not going to believe this. I love my woman dearly, but when it came to camping, she was an absolute woos/city girl. She would get too cold at night, and I didn't like getting cooked out at night running the furnace at 95 degrees. Not having a clue how RVs worked, she wanted to know why she couldn't run her electric blanket. Then a little light came on in my head--problem solved. "Yes dear, next time we go camping, you can run your electric blanket.
So the solution was an electric blanket, 6 T105s, and 2KW inverter turned on and left on all night. The blanket is rated at 500 watts, so 250 a side. 6 of those batteries is just enough to make it 2 nights before charging. I love them!
Now for charging--I have 2 things. My trailer came with a very nice 70a PWM charger. If I need to, I just plug into my Honda eu2000i. But the other thing I did that I wanted to point out was this--
The factory charging plug on ANY pickup is no more than 30 amps, and typically, 20amps. Figure in the loss of going through the cheesy 16Ga wire they use, your hitch plug, your trailer's wiring, etc, and when I measured my truck and trailer, I was getting about 12 amps. Simple math--charging a pair of T105's that are say, half dead and need 100amp/hrs, it would take 8 hours per pair. In my case, 3 half dead pairs means 24 hours of charging.
I ran 4ga red and black power cables from the hood to the back of the truck, through an 80 amp breaker, then to a high amperage golf-cart type disconnect, which in turn then goes to the trailer. Brings them back up in just a couple hours of road time. I've only popped the breaker once, when they were really low. Other than that, worked great. Total cost for wire, plugs and all was about $100.

I've never had a problem with the Trojan batteries, and have had this set up now for about 3 years.

[boatycall]

One other thing worth mentioning--these batteries do not require special chargers.
Here is a very good article on the pro's and con's of Lead Acid, Gel Cels, and AGM's:
http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html

[SteveRacer]

[ QUOTE ]
One other thing worth mentioning--these batteries do not require special chargers.


[/ QUOTE ]

Boatycall is absolutely right. I was wrong to say the Trojan T-105 needs special charging. I got them confused with gel cells that some RVers like. The T-105 is just a flooded 6V cell with thicker plates.

I use cheap Group 27 "deep cycle" marine batteries from WallMart or Costco. But I do charge them with a hardwired, dedicated Statpower Trucharge charger. I can get 3 years out of a set of these batteries if I'm careful, and a new set (of 3) for about $200.

-steve

[T_Bone]

Hi HnH2,

Ok now we're getting some where. You have a bucket of water with a 1/2" pipe supply where you need a bucket with a 1" pipe supply. Your electrical circuit is no different.

You have a small diameter charge wire to the trailer battery(s) where your circuit is demanding a large diameter wire to keep up with demand.

2nd, your trying to demand too many amp/hrs from the battery at one time. 4- 100w halogen lites is 16amp/hrs where your battery is rated at a 20amp/hr draw rate. Yes the battery can supply more than it's rating for short periods but then add on your compressor usage and your right at maximum for two battery's.

You alternator only puts out 200amps at about 1800rpm, not at idle rpm. You need a different regulator, not a alternator.

Lets change a couple things.

Lets build air pressure as were traveling down the road to the show where we have plenty of time to make air. Store that air in a accumulator tank for when it's needed. When your air ride requires filling then the accumulator tank will supply that air thus quickly refilling the suspension air requirement and your air compressor won't run for very long. Size the accumulator tank to where it supply's at least 50% or more of the required air supply of the suspension.

Change your inside lighting to flourescent lights, one 18w for about every 10ft of trailer length. They also make a sealed floursecent for outside use with a clear or yellow bug lens. All run about the same price $35eh. This will give you day light like lightening but at 1/2 the amps. You can install a light at the top of the door so it shines outside when the door(s) are open

Only use your halogen lites for when you need to see at a distance.

Now if the battery's will not recharge in a reasonable amount of time, then you need a larger diameter recharge wire. Ford uses a #12 recharge wire or good for about a 10amp/hr recharge time. From personal experience, you would need to use a #8 wire for a significant increase in trailer battery re-charging using your TV.

That should give you an idea of where you need to start. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]





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[drcampbell]

If you're interested in boosting your capacity toward 450 Amp-hours, consider a pair of L-16s instead of four T-105s. You'll have to make room for them with different battery boxes, but you would have had to install more or different battery boxes anyway.

There's no need to open battery boxes for charging. Only a little bit of gas is created unless you're overcharging, and even then, there's no ignition source inside the battery box.

If you do install a 120-Volt charger, spend the extra $20 and get a 3-step (bulk, finish, float) regulated charger. They charge faster, never overcharge and increase battery life.

There's nothing *wrong* with charging from the existing 7th conductor in the trailer plug; the trailer batteries just won't charge as fast as they could. It won't do any harm unless your batteries end up being run down regularly. If you do replace the 7th pin with a hefty pair of dedicated battery charging conductors, the connectors are called "Anderson" connectors and are widely available. NAPA stocks them. http://www.andersonpower.com/