Truck Campers and GVWR questions

[farnorthdriver]

--Sorry this is so long--
Have you seen those rather large, 11.5' truck campers out there sitting on the back of a F350 dually? --They aren't an infrequent a sight. That's just what I have.
Being slightly new to all this, here's what I've noticed is the semi-dirty secret about my situation (and likely other folks too who have these types of truck campers): I'm driving around with my truck significantly over loaded.

Here are the numbers:
Wet and loaded camper weight, 5955 lbs. The camper CG is approx 1" forward of the rear axle.
"Empty" truck weight, 8750 lbs (that's me and 30 gallons of diesel).
So that wet camper added to my truck plus another 300 for tools, junk, wife and full fuel comes out to 15,005 lbs!
As you can see, I have a 1999 F350 XLT DRW 4x4 and when I look at the sticker on the inside of the door it says "GVWR 11,000"
Ouch!
The few truck camper types I've come across and ask about this just say, "... yep, that's just the way it is..."
I have airbags, heavy duty shocks and sway stops which keep the truck nice and level and contribute to make the ride OK (not great but not bad either but in the category of could be better)

The rear axle rating is 8250lbs. Each rear tire, when used in a DRW configuration is good for 2780 lbs max so adding all 4 rear tires gives 11,120 lbs max for the rear tires.
The front axle rating is 6200lbs. The front tires are rated at 3042 lbs when used in a single wheel configuration so I've got 6084 lbs max for the front tires.
--Surprisingly it's not the tire load limitation I'm running up against but the GVWR of 11,000 lbs.

Here are my questions:

1) Later model F350's have a much higher GVWR than mine, what changed and what is it about my truck that makes the GVWR lower that these later trucks?

2) On my last trip I had the unfortunate problem of getting a medium sized stone stuck between the right rear tires.
I've noticed single, 22.5 inch wheel/tire combinations have some enormous weight capabilities --some up around 8000 lbs per single wheel/tire. Could I switch to a single 22.5" wheel/tire on each corner of my truck (ie get rid of the DRW and go to SRW on the back) as you see with the Earthroamer at EarthRoamer XV-LT Exterior Photos as a way of avoiding getting stones stuck between the dual rear tires? --Or is contemplating going from DRW to SRW kind of stupid for other reasons I'm not aware?

3) The kind of overload I have going on above --4005 lbs!-- just seems crazy. How dumb is this?
.... I do have to say the truck seems to handle it very well; I've got about 5000 miles of driving on it now, over paved roads, gravel and dirt and besides jamming a rock between the dually's, it's done great. Rides OK, all engine temps, etc are good, power isn't an issue. --Of course, I haven't measured the stopping distance from 60mph.
The one suggestion I've received to eliminate what sway the airbags and sway stops haven't taken care of is to put another 2 leafs into each spring pack. Anybody done this or heard of it being done? Would it make the unloaded ride super harsh?

4) Do any of you know of a truck camper site where people talk about stuff like this? With all the heavy campers I see on 350's, this has to be an issue that's come up and has some solutions.

Thanks a bunch.

[dands97]

Well I too have a monster camper, and an overloaded truck. I went with 19.5 wheels/tires but HATED their ride and disliked their taller and narrower footprint. I am in the process of making mine a dually with a parts truck. Rear axle / bed / tires & wheels swap in process.

Two suggestions: have your wife unload anything unnecessary in your camper. I go rounds with my wife. I'm like hey- if we need something, there's usually a store a short range out. Next, live with being over the weight limit... you're probably just fine.

If you can't live with it, down size the camper to a nine and a half footer and you'll be in the way comfortable range.

Good luck!

[SmokeyWren]

As you can see, I have a 1999 F350 XLT DRW 4x4 and when I look at the sticker on the inside of the door it says "GVWR 11,000"

Believe it or not, way back in the dark ages of 1999 Ford made a truck designed to haul your 6,000-pound payload. F-450 chassis cab with 60" CA (cab to axle). GVWR is 16,000, and the wet and loaded truck is less than 10,000, so your gross when wet and loaded would be less than the GVWR of the truck. Add a flatbed or pickup body to that chassis and you had a custom camper hauler. But being loaded right up against the GVWR doesn't leave you much wiggle room, so some go for the F-550, which has 1,500 pounds more payload than the F-450. The F-550 has heavier rear spring packs and a much-heavier rear axle, so it was the choice for a lot of serious truck camper haulers.

1) Later model F350's have a much higher GVWR than mine, what changed and what is it about my truck that makes the GVWR lower that these later trucks?

'05-up F-350 DRW has a GVWR of 13,000, which is still not enough for your 15,000 pound gross. So you still need the F-450.

Main changes for 2005 were frame, rear spring pack, and rear axle.

Could I switch to a single 22.5" wheel/tire on each corner of my truck (ie get rid of the DRW and go to SRW on the back) as you see with the Earthroamer at EarthRoamer XV-LT Exterior Photos as a way of avoiding getting stones stuck between the dual rear tires? --Or is contemplating going from DRW to SRW kind of stupid for other reasons I'm not aware?

SuperSingle is somewhat common. Notice concrete haulers. Usually a bigger as well as higher capacity tire replaces the dual tires/wheels. For example, check out the 1999 F-550 "Turtle V" outfitted by the Turtle Expedition:
Turtle Expedition

Notice two different sets of SuperSingle tires and wheels on Turtle V. Michelin stopped production of the first size tire they chose, so they wound up with 275/80R22.5, i.e., plain ole 18-wheeler tires. Suggestion: Choose your tire first, and then have wheels made to match the tire specs.

[rskeans]

Originally Posted by farnorthdriver

--The one suggestion I've received to eliminate what sway the airbags and sway stops haven't taken care of is to put another 2 leafs into each spring pack. Anybody done this or heard of it being done? Would it make the unloaded ride super harsh?

I have a 5000# camper wet. OKANAGAN - Camper Floorplans Air bags for me were a total failure. I ended up going to a 'spring shop' with the camper on and 60gal of water. Their solution which has been perfect was to add one leaf to the main spring pack and 3 leafs to the overload spring pack. When empty the overload pack does not come into play. The extra spring in the main pack makes only a minor difference. Handling has been perfect. I still have 'center mounted' air bags that I do not use for travel. I only use them for minor leveling when parked.

[farnorthdriver]

Hi rskeans,
That's very interesting. For me it seems like the airbags are the great savior in my situation. I run them at ~75psi, just enough to load up my overload springs (I have sway stops for my overload springs so they engage about three inches earlier than normal) and things are OK. If I get them much below 55-60 psi, I get a huge amount of sway and my ride becomes poor. I wonder what the difference is between our set-ups?
I like the idea of adding leafs to the overload springs. Seems like it is a great idea. I will look into that.

[rskeans]

Originally Posted by farnorthdriver

Hi rskeans,
That's very interesting. For me it seems like the airbags are the great savior in my situation. I run them at ~75psi, just enough to load up my overload springs (I have sway stops for my overload springs so they engage about three inches earlier than normal) and things are OK. If I get them much below 55-60 psi, I get a huge amount of sway and my ride becomes poor. I wonder what the difference is between our set-ups?
I like the idea of adding leafs to the overload springs. Seems like it is a great idea. I will look into that.

Hi Far North,

Here is a little elaboration on my situation. My camper is 5000lbs. Originally I wanted the option in the future to pull a 5th wheel. So I installed airbags that mounted between the frame rails as this type of installation is compatible with a 5th wheel hitch. The problem was that in inflating the air bags the camper became extremly top heavy. I live in the mountains and going around a curve was scary.

So, the next solution was mounting the air bags outside of the frame. That fixed the top heavy problem. But, the brackets of the outside mounting reduced the axle travel by at least 2". I bottomed out even with 90lbs of air and at one time even sheered a hardened mounting bolts. Also the shock of bottoming out is very hard on the camper.

The shop that installed the air bags said that the solution was adding springs. They pulled the bags and matched springs for my load. This was indeed a perfect solution. Now, they also reinstalled the center bags which I believe was so that they would not have to refund any of my previous monies. That's OK with me since it is convenient to use the bags for leveling the camper. At the moment I am stable going up and down the mountain and on the highway. I can go over dips, etc without bottoming out. Air bags might be fine with smaller loads, but not with a 5000lb camper.

I forgot to mention that the shop did install a 2-3" spacer to engage the overload springs earlier.

[Loser]

I had a custom spring set up on my previous truck and they worked very well. Gits Spring in Auburn, Wa re-arched the main rear springs and added a leaf to get the ride height back up to where it should be. They then replaced the overload leaf with a three leaf custom overload. The overload looked beefier than the regular springs from an F150. Even loaded the truck sat nice and level. Cost was around $900.

I didn't want airbags since the only ones I could find required drilling into the frame.

I had my first trip last week with the camper and new-to-me F450. I thought my old truck handled the camper okay, but I now know I was kidding myself after this trip.

Here are the weights:

F350
GVWR: 11,200
Unloaded: 7850 lbs.
Loaded with camper:11950

F450
GVWR: 14,500
Unloaded: 9020
Loaded with camper: 13020

Jeep weight: 3620

The only problem with the 450 (besides fuel economy) is that it sits level when unloaded, so it sags in the rear end a fair amount when loaded.

4) Do any of you know of a truck camper site where people talk about stuff like this? With all the heavy campers I see on 350's, this has to be an issue that's come up and has some solutions.

Oh yeah, this has come up before. RV.Net RV and Camping Forum ? RV, Trailer, Camper, Motorhome, Camping and Campground Information is probably the best. IRV2.net was good a while ago, but I haven't been out there in a while. Be warned that some folks are passionate about GVWR.