Truck struggling with new LQ horse trailer

[labworkerdeb]

My new trailer is a Sundowner 8010. Its shipping weight is listed as 10,500 and max trailer weight is 18K. On a scale, the whole rig weighed 20,140 with one horse, full of fuel with empty rv tanks. My truck alone weighs 7340 with full of fuel and no passengers. I have calculated the kingpin (gooseneck ball) weight at 3100, and my payload capacity is rated at 3300 (F250 4WD), so even though it's smashed down pretty low, it's supposedly okay. BUT, this trailer is too much for my drivetrain. I can survive on my midwest interstates, but unless I have a run at any hill, I have to shift my 6-speed so low, I'm crawling and the engine is complaining, making sounds I've never heard before. I got a 6 speed because I like to shift, but Gee whiz! I need opinions on what to do! Here's what I have in mind:
Changing my 3:73 final drive ratio to 4:10 (stock tires 31.6")
Dual wheel conversion
Overload springs (an extra leaf)

I looked at kits for DRW conversion, it's just an adapter you bolt on the hub and then add the new wheels. Will this be as good as a factory DRW?

Will a 4:10 give enough torque multiplication?

I would like to make the engine breathe better with an intake and big diameter exhaust so I can chip it, but that's money down the road. Right now I just need to help it pull this trailer even if I want to go to where there are mountains to deal with.

I need your opinions and help! Thanks a lot,
Debbie

[NickKent]

Plain and simple. You need a new truck. Let me know if I'm wrong on the weights here. Your trailer weighed in at 12800 with a pin weight of 3100 lbs. And your truck is 7340 full of fuel no passengers. Just adding the the trailer pin weight to that puts your truck at 10440 lbs. How many horses will your trailer hold? You supposedly have enough capacity in the trailer to take on 5200 lbs more which would add roughly another 1100-1300 lbs of tongue weight to your truck. that is before passengers in your truck. Isn't your trucks GVWR 8800 lbs? You would most likely be over RGAWR and the weight rating of the tires. I think you are pushing your luck with that truck trailer combination. Go out and get a 350, 450 dually to pull that rig safely. Chances are too that when you load the trailer up the pin weight to trailer weight ratio is going to go over 25%. I've read quite a bit there that lq horse trailers are heavy on the pin weight.

[teamroper60]

Debbie,

That's a really nice trailer you bought! Congrats on it. However I think you have over done your truck. I don't know what the GCWR of an early 99 F250 is, but it's 20,000lbs on my 03 F350 DRW. You are already 140lbs over my max GCWR, so I'm sure you are over yours as well. Not to mention an F250 doesn't have the same GAWR as a DRW. The 4.10's would definitely help you pull it, but they will do nothing for the rest of the suspension, which is over max now.

The DRW conversions might help some, but they won't bring your truck up to true DRW specs. Your F250 most likely has a Ford 10.25" rear end, whereas the DRW's come with Dana 80 rear axles (and thus, a higher GAWR).

I have to agree with the previous poster, you are over what your truck was designed to carry and not by a little and your truck is telling you so.... You probably need to consider a different truck for that load, especially if you intend to haul more than one horse.

[Steve F.]

Debbie... As Nick said. There is just no way away around it, your 250 is never going to haul that trailer in a safe way. And also as Nick said, about a new truck, but I will have to push you into the 450 with that setup IF you ever go over one horse. You have to remember (again as Nick posted) your pin weight isn't going to be the norm as a 5th wheel camper type, your wheels on the trailer are much farther back for the weight of the horses. Having the LG setup, you are already over the normal 10 to 15% pin weight of a RV.


Is this the trailer... http://www.sundownertrailer.com/prod...?model=sr_8010 ? Thats is allot of trailer.

[labworkerdeb]

Yep, that link leads to my exact trailer. Here I am up at 3:30 am can't sleep for turning everything over and over in my mind. I know I should get a new truck. I'd like an nice 2006 6.0 F350 DRW, but I can't do another payment. That trailer payment is a killer. Ya know what? The salesman at that Kansas City Sundowner dealership told me more than once that 'Sundowner designed the 8010 for 3/4 ton trucks". I was mislead. The final fault lies with me for not checking weights vs. capacities. I think I might call Sundowner and ask them about this. I wonder if they'd take it back [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ? Dream on! I'd definitely take a big hit trading it in on a smaller trailer.
What if I took out that whole Ford rear end and got a 4:10 ratio Dana 80 DRW springs and all from a junkyard and swapped it out, and got a matched ring and pinion installed in the front diff? Would that make everything okay? How much might that set me back?

Here I finally got a really good horse looking promising in NATRC competitive trail and now problems with getting us there.

Debbie

[LMJD]

I agree with all the above posts, too heavy for an F250. As far as a rear end ratio change, when I bought my F250 with the 5 speed, I test drove one (5spd) with the 3:55 rear end, then jumped in one (5spd) with the 4:10 rear end and highway RPM at 60-65 miles per hour was only 150-180RPM more on the tach so in your case a lower rear end ratio wouldn't be very helpful. Somehow I'd threaten the salesman, dealer, or whoever with litigation for saying a 3/4 ton could handle a trailer like that. Years back I got conned into hauling one back 30 miles that was on display at a cowhorse performance event. The ill designed thing had the axles at the very rear so the fender wells didn't interfere with the long living quarter area, and with all that length, it only hauled two horses. The weight on the gooseneck was definitely not designed for my 3/4 ton.

[karmikacres]

That's a lot of trailer even for a 2006 F-350 DRW....

[LMJD]

Yep, to me it's more small FL and Peterbilt material like most of the PRCA guys are pulling with nowdays.

A guy I was acquainted with who I knew for a fact had never towed a trailer in his entire life, no clue about wind resistance, heavy load up and down grades, braking, etc, went to work selling all sizes of RVs and this is probably the usual case. All he knew was what was written in the spec sheets.

[CCOUGHRAN]

Debbie,


I guess I am the only one out here that is surprised your truck is having trouble pulling that load. I am guessing a 8010 is 8ft wide, 10 ft short wall? ~20k gross, seems like a lot on a 3/4 ton, but it has the same drive train as a 1 ton srw, or drw.
Here is a picture of a 3/4 pulling a 32' trailer @ 30,500 gross. There is not any frontal area to speak of creating a lot of drag, but the truck had plenty of power to pull the load, and it has a 6 spd, with 3.55 gears.
http://photos.thedieselstop.com/show...amp;thecat=500

I had a 42' 8.5' wide 16' short wall with slide out that was taxing on the truck, it was build like lmjd said, with the axles way too far back. So it squatted the truck, but the truck pulled the weight just fine. I pulled that big trailer from Texas to Minnesota,S Dakota, etc. Pulled some decent grades occasionally and I just dropped to a lower gear.

Here is my opinion on the combo that you have.
Given no additional mods to the engine, and the 6 spd that you have, the only benefit you will get from 4.10 over 3.55 is that you will have a lower gear to get you rolling. Look at it this way, what you can run with a 4.10 in 5th gear, you can do with a 3.55 in 4th gear, or possibly 3rd, just depends on where the ratios fall. But when you are empty, you can hit 6th gear with 3.55 and run a lower rpm than the 4.10 in 6th.

The 4.10 does not get you more power.
The DRW conversion will get you more stability, and 2 more tires. I like the drw for peace of mind in case of a blow out.
Also if you decide to change gear ratios remember that you have to change the front and rear.

Enjoy the new trailer.

[AllanInNE]

That must be some trailer!

I've got a Pro-Stock Sundowner and when it's filled to the brim with horses/tack I have to check the mirrors to make sure it is even back there.

Allan

[haul_n_horses2]

I am with the majority here thinking you have too much trailer and not enough truck. I believe the adage is "Better to have more truck than you need, than need more truck than you have!" I have little experience with LQ trailers. Our money went into palatial accomodations for the horses not the riders. However my 32" box 4 Star breaks all the rules on weight distribution so this may be the reason you are sagging. It puts nearly 30% of the load on the truck axles. I would carefully look at the weight ticket you got when you weighed the truck (wet), trailer (dry) with one horse. It should give you the weight on each axle. Then look at the axle ratings on the door pillar. If you are over those, you are asking for trouble. I know that you cannot afford additional payments right now but you need at a minimum a DRW 1-ton truck. The six speed is nice for RPM/EGT control if you can find it. I personally would not look at 6 leaker but find a '02 or '03 DRW. Their prices have come down a bit with the introduction of the 6.4 and you might find one you could afford with the trade of your F250. Good luck.

[Riggodeaux]

That's lots of trailer, Debbie. You will see in my signature that I'm pulling a stock/combo CM aluminum trailer, no LQ, behind my mod'd 2000 F250 PSD. Empty, my trailer weighs in at around 5k; truck about the weight of yours, maybe a little heavier, loaded. Loaded with two horses, I'm well under gross combined vehicle weight, but the goose/pin weight means I'm exceeding [just barely] the 8800 lb. max GVWR. With that, the truck performs great when I haul two horses. Even mod'd to improve performance [chip, exhaust, intake, gauges, FTVB, rebuilt rear diff.], I figure I'm at the absolute max of practical horse-towing performance with my rig when I carry four horses [a rare event] - and you are probably close to 3 tons heavier. I know the LQ is nice, but you might want to reassess your real trailer needs, raise h-e-double hockey sticks with that dealer, and trade down to nmt a 3 horse with a front tack room [get some $$$ back - having been misled, you shouldn't have to take the hit], and use a tent or motel-it at events. If not, you'll need to find a newer dually to pull that big an LQ. Sorry - you might pm haul-n-horses2, he has a dually and pulls a big LQ horse trailer, might have additional thoughts.

[haul_n_horses2]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry - you might pm haul-n-horses2, he has a dually and pulls a big LQ horse trailer, might have additional thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]My trailer has a 32' box with a 7' tack room and head to head horse stalls that can be converted to 3 box stall. No LQ. If I ever got a LQ trailer it would be pulled by a reconditioned Volvo tractor come RV hauler. Not good in snow, ice or wet/boggy pastures but more than capable on the road.

[davidm49]

Although I see it has been posted here many times, you are way underrated to pull the trailer you bought with a SRW truck. About the ONLY truck that is rated to pull this is either a 08 350 DRW or perhaps the Dodge 3500. The primary issue is the weight over the axle and of course the strain on your entire suspension given the weight you are towing. A great resource for towing and capacties is at rvforum.net who will tell you what you need and there are of course the horror stories of towing too much weight with too little truck. Unfortunately, the trailer and RV salesman will tell you anything or nothing at all about what you need to tow their product while being especially anxious to sell you that new trailer. You are left to do all of the research yourself; however, there are many people out there who will help you. Good luck

[MarkEkberg]

Well I am going to say otherwise.

Get a set of airbags for the rear of the truck. That will take care of any suspension issues. You may have some increased seal replacement and fluid change due to higher temps, but running gear and suspension wise it will be fine with air bags.

As far as power goes. How many miles are you doing with this set-up? We have a 00 that grosses close to 30K a few times a year. The truck is as stock as it gets for reliability. When we are real heavy we just shift down put it to the floor to get the rpm's up until we get to the top of the hill.

If you are full timing in it I would agree get a larger truck, but for the everyday Joe you will be fine.