USDOT # required interstate over 10,001 lbs GCWR

[thebaldeagle]

Got stopped by DOT yesterday, written a warning (luckily) because I had no DOT # on my F250 with a 11,000 GVWR gooseneck trailser that was empty. I weighed a short time later and was only 10,900 lbs at the time. Nothing would be needed if I only traveled intrastate, but to go interstate (cross a state line) He said I needed to register with DOT, post the DOT number, run a log book (even though I only made the trip once a month) and have a medical card. NO CDL required, only the other stuff. Oh yes, 750,000 liability insurance!!

So, according to the definitions below, a 1/2 ton (F150) with a GVWR of 6400 lbs, and a 16' flatbed bumper pull trailer with a 4000 lb GVWR needs DOT numbers to cross a state line!!


Definitions according to US DOT, Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations,

"Interstate CMV (390.5): Any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle: ... Has a GVWR or GCWR or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kbg (10,001 pounds) or more ...

Interstate commerce is trade, traffic or transportation across a State line, including international boundaries, or wholly within one State as part of a through movement that originates or terminates in another State or country. "

To see if you need DOT check out this website
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations

[Albin]

"Interstate CMV (390.5): Any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle: ... Has a GVWR or GCWR or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kbg (10,001 pounds) or more ..."

And of course, the key words being: "...used on a highway in interstate commerce....."

Private vehicles towing personal property are exempt. If you're hauling for $, pony up.

[Believer45]

I assume you were driving a company owned truck or doing something for hire?

Dave / Believer45

[fastzr1]

Was this Texas where you were stopped?

I guess this wasn't a privately owned vehicle where you are only towing for yourself, not a business venture?

[bugman]

And did you have a business sign on the truck. That is the first give away that you are going to get pulled over when hauling something.

Jim

[SmokeyWren]

What they said. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img]

"in interstate commerce" means you are a commercial hauler. Those rules don't apply to private motor vehicles towing a private camper or horse trailer or boat trailer or whatever.

But yeah, if you are driving an obvious "company truck", then the state troopers and DOT cops will assume you are a commercial truck. So don't do that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

But if you are going to cross the river into Oklahoma while hauling something you get paid to haul, or while driving a pickup with the company name plastered on the side, then you'd better comply with all the DOT and state rules for commercial trucks.

Or even if unmarked, if you look like a hotshotter, driving a Dooley and towing a gooseneck flatbed/dovetail with 10k axles under it, then you might get stopped. IOW, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, the DOT boys are going to assume it's a duck. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in an unmarked pickup towing all sorts of trailers, except I don't tow a hotshot-looking trailer. And the state troopers and DOT cops never give me a second look.

[4drdually]

I'd like to here the posters response to the commercial vehicle questions. I'm up on all this now since I drive commercially everyday. Only time you need insurance is if you are a for hire carrier.

[thebaldeagle]

Driving F250, no signs, pulling gooseneck empty. I was not for hire, I do run a business and was going up to get supplies for it but it was for myself. The law says transportation across state lines, not "for Hire" The rules have changed, the "not for hire" merely means that the DOT # does not cost you anything. The regs do apply. I checked with the Wichita Falls DOT Officer and he said this was a new directive from the feds to enforce the law or else. Guess we are screwed!!! Next time I go I will put a small bale of hay on the trailer and claim I am hauling hay!!

[RVrs R US]

[ QUOTE ]
Driving F250, no signs, pulling gooseneck empty. I was not for hire, I do run a business and was going up to get supplies for it but it was for myself. The law says transportation across state lines, not "for Hire" The rules have changed, the "not for hire" merely means that the DOT # does not cost you anything. The regs do apply. I checked with the Wichita Falls DOT Officer and he said this was a new directive from the feds to enforce the law or else. Guess we are screwed!!! Next time I go I will put a small bale of hay on the trailer and claim I am hauling hay!!

[/ QUOTE ]

If this new interpretation of the general understanding of the original GCWR rule (transportation across state lines, not "for Hire") sticks, it'll be interesting to see how fast it spreads to the RV industry. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

A huge number of us fulltimers live in heavier fivers as our homes. At nearly 30,000#'s GCW, looks like we will be traveling country roads to get to our destinations if this interpretation spreads around the country.

And just when we were starting our plans for fulltiming around Texas for the next two years. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

Tania and Dave

[tsaelens]

[ QUOTE ]
Driving F250, no signs, pulling gooseneck empty. I was not for hire, I do run a business and was going up to get supplies for it but it was for myself. The law says transportation across state lines, not "for Hire"

[/ QUOTE ]

Something's not right. A one ton has a GVW over 10K, so if you drive over a state line you need DOT numbers?

Trinity

[thebaldeagle]

According to the DOT regulations, yes. I don't agree with it, but I spent $60.00 on my DOT inspection sticker for my F250 today because of it. SUCKS!! but there isn't much you can do about it!

[4drdually]

If you read the book, your interpretation, and the dot officer, is not correct. Any commercially titled vehicle, meaning any vehicle owned by a business, is considered a USDOT CMV when it crosses state lines exceeding 10k lbs. Each state also has an intrastate threshold. Here in PA is 17k lbs, and then you fall into US DOT territory. You need a DOT number to simply cross state lines to do anything, business related or not. There is 2 types of US DOT CMVs, for hire and private. Any private carrier under fmcsr is not required to comply with insurance restrictions. Private refers to a contractor carrying his own tools. Or a delivery van dropping off their own products. They are required to have general liability and general auto, nothing specific. As for log books and such.... No log needs to be kept if you stay within a 150 mile radius of your home base and return there each night. You do need to keep time cards when using this rule to prove that you haven't been driving over the max time limits. You do need a medical card to operate the truck, regardless of for hire or private. You also need safety triangles, and a fire extinguisher. And you need to have signs on the vehicle. I've been up on this for quite some time now since i live on the pa/nj border and work construction in both states. The grey area is what happens when you are the owner of the truck and are crossing state lines doing something personal? I own one vehicle, and its the truck in my sig. So far, no DOT inspector knows the answer. I'm waiting for my safety audit to happen to try to find out this last part. Since I'm not a priority, They have a year to call me back and schedule an appointment. I agree it's stupid, and i agree that no one really knows the right answer. The downside is, they won't accept "I didn't know" as an answer anymore.

Dan

[amunderdog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Driving F250, no signs, pulling gooseneck empty. I was not for hire, I do run a business and was going up to get supplies for it but it was for myself. The law says transportation across state lines, not "for Hire"

[/ QUOTE ]

Something's not right. A one ton has a GVW over 10K, so if you drive over a state line you need DOT numbers?

Trinity

[/ QUOTE ]
Read between the lines.
He makes this trip regular.
He was hauling/deadheading to get freight for his buisness.
Etc.
Note to self (use alternate routes so you do not draw attention).

[awayne]

I was pulled over in MS for basically the same thing. I wasn't running with any signs on the truck, I was empty (24' enclosed car trailer). The trailer is reg to me personally and my truck to my business. The DOT cop pulls me over and asks me who I am hauling for... I said no one, I am hauling for myself. I told him that I had just sold a car to someone dropped it off to them and was buying another one. He goes onto to asking me if I make money doing this and I tell him ya, I try to make money on selling a car and thats when he says that I need a DOT # if I am making money doing so. I tell him that I already have that for my transporting business but this is me selling a personal car that I own and I had the understanding that if it my personal property that I am hauling that I didn't need to display my DOT# but he says nope you need to display it since I am making money selling that car... so we start to BS a bit and we walk back to his car he pulls my dot # that I do have for my transport business and says you see that number there, that means you need to be inspected. I told him I was inspected in Ohio just recently I thought that would be good enough, he says well not really. We BS a bit more for about a total of 1/2 hour and he lets me go with no inspection... He also asked me where my signs were which I told him they were in my trailer which they were and on I went with no ticket, no inspection, no problem at all. Just 30min of my time in talking to a very nice DOT cop.

So basically if you go that way to get supplies for your business alot, try to figure another way around because they will be looking for you again if you go the sameway.

[4drdually]

And if you are ever moving a car again and get stopped.... Tell him you moved it for free.