Wanting to do a few hauls....need some answers - Diesel Forum

bboteler · 04-22-2006, 08:50 PM

This is for you guys who do this alot, hopefully you can help. I want to use my truck and horse trailer on my days off to make some extra money.
I only want to haul in my state (Virginia) and maybe some adjoining states. I only have a two horse gooseneck so weren't not talking a lot of wieght, but what kind of insurance do I need and what companies do you guys use for that?

And what DOT or other fed. authorities do I need to have and how do you do that?

Thanks.

tall_green · 04-22-2006, 11:04 PM

I dont think you would need any type of insurance for something that small of a hauling operation.

Now if you want to be safe you could get some kind of liabilty insurance that if you kill the persons horses that the owners don't come after you with pitchforks.

Oh yeah get a cb they are nice.I have a galaxy.They are better than cobra.

They come in handy for speed traps,black and whites,and other stuff you see on the road.I like to advise a cb to anyone who wants to consider hauling consistently on a daily or a weekend basis. like you.

444turbodiesel · 04-22-2006, 11:07 PM

If you're going to haul for-hire, you'll need at least $500,000 worth of commercial liability insurance, a DOT number, interstate operating authority (if you leave VA), depending on your weight, a class A or B CDL, and oh yes, you'll also have to participate in a random drug screen pool as well.

The easiest way to accomplish most of the above is to lease yourself and your truck to a commercial carrier, who takes a cut of everything you do (usually 20-30%) For this they provide the commercial insurance (legally, it has to be in the carriers' name, not yours) carry your receivables (do your billing) arrange the drug screen pool, track your mileage for road tax and audit your log books (oh yes, you'll need a log book too)

You can get your own authority for around $1000, plus you'll probably be required to front a 25% deposit to get your insurance policy started (you should expect to pay about $3-500/month for this policy) you'll have to bill and collect all receivables (some people/companies will run you out to 120days) file all road/property taxes (yes, you'll be paying property tax to states you don't live in, because in their eyes, if you drive through, your conducting business in their state, and your truck is business property, which is charged tax based on it's value and the number of miles you ran in their communist state...BTW, KY is the #1 communist in your area). On the up side, you should be exempt from IFTA fuel taxes.

There are very few insurance companies writing commercial policies, and even fewer still writing them on pickups. Progressive used to write commercial policies provided you do not go beyond a 300mi radius from your home terminal (base of operation), I don't know if they still do. Northland Ins. will write a policy on a pickup without restriction, Marvin, Johnson & Associates is a big commercial broker, and they are Northland agents.

There are a lot of "bootleggers" out there, running illegal in pickups. With no insurance, authority, CDL, drug screen, etc. They haul for cheap and make it nearly impossible for someone wanting to run legal to make money. I would not advise this avenue, as when (not if) your are either caught by DOT or involved in an accident you will be hung at the nearest convenient tree if not by the DOT then certainly by the "victims" lawyer (I quoted "victim" because you WILL be at fault reqardless of the circumstances of the accident, do to the fact that you are illegally operating and shouldn't have been there to begin with)

Sorry to ramble, but after 20+ yrs of commercial hauling, I just wanted to you to know what your getting yourself into. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img]

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I dont think you would need any type of insurance for something that small of a hauling operation.

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The size of the operation has absolutely nothing to due with the legal requirements, if he's getting paid to haul goods he's commercial, and must comply with all DOT regulations.

tall_green · 04-22-2006, 11:37 PM

God where you from,new york city?

Yankees must of been pulling on your ears a long time.

I laughed at everything you typed.

Hes trying to make a few bucks,rather spend a few grand.

People haul all the time and if you asked them about insurance they wouldn't know what it is,probaly wouldn't know how to spell it.

Anyways hes not commercial.Regardless if hes hired or not.Im hired,Im not insured and ive been pulled over before with my hauling stickers.They don't question me about the load.I could imagine his weight is under 14k

Truck weighing about 8k max and the barn with 2 horses weighing about 4k.Unless their those clumbsy plow horses they weigh a ton.haha.

Whats this world coming to? Pretty soon we are going to need a cdl in a car if they say your wife is too big.

They would probaly tell you that your cars leaning to one side and thats unsafe.

LongRider · 04-22-2006, 11:48 PM

Have at it.

That is how I got rich.

Now, for the drama.

444turbodiesel · 04-22-2006, 11:50 PM

Actually, I'm from Texas originally, but now reside in the RV capitol of the world, Indiana. There are no weight restrictions with regards to commercial operation either (from a federal view) I would imagine if he stayed in VA, he could get by with minimal fuss, but he said he might cross state lines, which puts him in federal interstate territory...and I guarantee KY will catch him if he's not legal, they are the toughest ones in that part of the country (especially with horse trailers, of which I've hauled a few hundred)

I'd like to see some adjustment of the regulations for toters and horse haulers, but where do you draw the line? The bootleggers are cutting their own throat, like the big trucks did when the government de-regulated the heavy truck industry, only difference is it's virtually impossible to bootleg in an 18-wheeler (unless you're from Mexico)

444turbodiesel · 04-22-2006, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have done what you are wanting to do all my life for a living.

Just haul the horses and keep your mouth shut; the less people that know your business, the better. Word of mouth is a great way to get more business, but if you're willing to do anything you can usually find anything to do 

If you are looking to pick up some extra cash, then you probably don't have enough to worry about if you have a crash, get sued, and lose it all. and I'm sure any jail time won't be an issue either 

If you keep your mind on your business and leave the cell-phone at the house, you won't have a crash; this method is much cheaper than working for the insurance company. Someone else's stupidity could cause the crash, and since you're not legal, you'll be at fault 

Get a bigger trailer; it costs just as much to haul two horses as it does to haul ten. Sure, might as well maximize your whoring potential 

Don't put any signs on the truck or trailer; look like you are hauling your own personal horses. I hope you'll have proof of ownership and vet papers for those horses in KY

If you go into this trying to be even close to legal, you will not make it; it is not possible. Due to people like you, this is unfortunately becoming true 

The communists that run things don't want you to make it.

You can pretty much go anywhere in the U.S. without all that commercial foolishness, so long as you appear that you are not commercial. That "foolishness" is what divides the professionals from the ametuers 

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
There are a lot of "bootleggers" out there, running illegal in pickups. With no insurance, authority, CDL, drug screen, etc. They haul for cheap and make it nearly impossible for someone wanting to run legal to make money.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the bootleggers that are making it impossible, not the government [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

JimTJr · 04-23-2006, 12:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The size of the operation has absolutely nothing to due with the legal requirements, if he's getting paid to haul goods he's commercial, and must comply with all DOT regulations.

[/ QUOTE ] Agreed,, and you can take what ever advice your getting here and do what you want with it. I do not haul live animals,, I haul Autos and Hotshot freight. I do NOT have to have a CDL in Missouri with 26k and under plates. NOW I Probably will move up to 35k or what ever is the next step if I get a three car trailer. I have Commercial insurance, 100,000.00 cargo insurance and 1,000,000.00 liability insurance. Do I think I waste my money doing that,, UM,, NO!
You haul horses for a "Friend" and get into an accident, killing someone, During the investigation they find out you were doing it for "HIRE" without the proper authority. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] as mentioned above,, they will hang you from the nearest tree....
Sure it looks like your hauling you own horses,,, untill somthing happens.
Do you want to gamble like that? I know I didnt want to.
Do what you want,, and if you make a few bucks before you get in trouble,,the fine!
Your an adult and can decide right from wrong,,and I DONT just mean the law. I mean what chances are worth taking with your families livelihood, and well being.

tall_green · 04-23-2006, 12:31 AM

Don't mean to break the subject and get into politics but it's gwb's crazy brain.

God fuel is high.

The cost of living is even higher.

You can hardly even buy something nowadays without a credit card.

They want to make your life more difficult financially so the guys who run the show can go home and enjoy a glass of wine and wake up in the morning to go drive around the golf course with a straw hat and big cigar in his mouth.

They want you to die so they don't have to put up with you anymore.

Its all about greed and if you get in the way they will throw arse in jail.

444turbodiesel · 04-23-2006, 12:58 AM

Unfortunately, capitalism only works if everyone plays by the rules.

It only takes a few, who want to "make some extra cash" and do so by operating illegally (and cheaper in the short-term) which affords them the ability to whore themselves out for whatever the shipper is willing to pay (instead of negotiating a reasonable rate), which leads to continued illegal operation since they cannot afford to "step up" for the crummy rates they've agreed too, to foul it up for everyone else.

Then, when a legal operation tries to negotiate, we get to hear "You must be joking! Joe-Bob's brother-in-law will come down here and haul it for half your rate! You must be some kind of crook to charge that!" when in reality, Joe-Bob's brother-in-law is the real crook. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vomit.gif[/img]

JimTJr · 04-23-2006, 07:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
They want to make your life more difficult financially so the guys who run the show can go home and enjoy a glass of wine and wake up in the morning to go drive around the golf course with a straw hat and big cigar in his mouth.

They want you to die so they don't have to put up with you anymore.

Its all about greed and if you get in the way they will throw arse in jail.

[/ QUOTE ] What on earth are you talking about ???

LMJD · 04-23-2006, 09:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What on earth are you talking about ???

[/ QUOTE ]
JimTjr, anybody who doesn't like this site's gotta be crazy! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

JimTJr · 04-23-2006, 09:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
God where you from,new york city?

Yankees must of been pulling on your ears a long time.

I laughed at everything you typed.

[/ QUOTE ] Yada Yada Yada,,,,[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] He LAUGHED his arse off??? LOL
Yep,,this sight is good for a few laughs once in a while!

Mr Greenjeans,, I mean Tall Green is right about ONE thing,,

I love my Tweeked Galaxy 44...Dead keys 6w and modulates about 36w!!!!

JimTJr · 04-23-2006, 09:48 AM

444...????[ QUOTE ]
file all road/property taxes (yes, you'll be paying property tax to states you don't live in, because in their eyes, if you drive through, your conducting business in their state, and your truck is business property, which is charged tax based on it's value and the number of miles you ran in their communist state...BTW, KY is the #1 communist in your area). On the up side, you should be exempt from IFTA fuel taxes.

[/ QUOTE ] So your saying we have to keep track of all miles driven in each state?? WHAT KIND OF LOG BOOK does that take???? I thought I researched all this,,I dont know what your talking about?
How can you be expected to pay "Property tax" on a vehicle that is NOT REGISTERED in that state? Or have to pay it on the same vehicle in many states??
If your small enough and dont have to get the KYU sticker,(I have my SSR filed) or mess with IFTA, then what else is there?

444turbodiesel · 04-23-2006, 10:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
444...????[ QUOTE ]
file all road/property taxes (yes, you'll be paying property tax to states you don't live in, because in their eyes, if you drive through, your conducting business in their state, and your truck is business property, which is charged tax based on it's value and the number of miles you ran in their communist state...BTW, KY is the #1 communist in your area). On the up side, you should be exempt from IFTA fuel taxes.

[/ QUOTE ] So your saying we have to keep track of all miles driven in each state?? WHAT KIND OF LOG BOOK does that take???? I thought I researched all this,,I dont know what your talking about?
How can you be expected to pay "Property tax" on a vehicle that is NOT REGISTERED in that state? Or have to pay it on the same vehicle in many states??
If your small enough and dont have to get the KYU sticker,(I have my SSR filed) or mess with IFTA, then what else is there?

[/ QUOTE ]

The log book and mileage tax are separate items. Yes, KY will charge property tax if you operate in their state, most companies pay this as part of the lease agreement (since you are technically "their" property while under lease) If you run under your own authority, you'll be paying the tax. Yes, it is a tax on your vehicle, not registered in their state. As I said it's a business property tax since you're conducting business in their state, they feel their entitled. The tax isn't much (like $50-100yr depending on mileage) but it's the principle that bugs me. You should be tracking your mileage in each state anyway, most companies require this even if you're exempt from IFTA.