Hi all, Ive been lurking around for awhile and havent really posted much, but now Ive got something to ask the experts. Within the next year or 2 I will be purchasing a trailer to haul me, my wife, 3 dogs, 2 4wheelers and my built tacoma around. Ive found the type of trailer I want to buy, but first I need to buy a truck. The type of trailer can be found here Living Quarters Trailers - Enclosed Trailers - Continental Cargo Trailers - Best Prices! Im lloking at the 38ft trailer with 14ft LQ. I figure that should be big enough for me to fit my tacoma, 4wheelers, and extra parts in, and provide us enough space to live. Right now I dont know how much the trailer weighs because I cant call the company because Im deployed right now, so just as a guess Im thinking 8-10k unloaded, then add in my truck which will be around 4-5k, 1k for 4 wheelers, another 3k for living, and however much water we carry (will depend on where we go, if they have hookups I wont carry water) After thinking about it, I think Im going to need atleast a F-450 to tow this big of a trailer, does that seem right to yall?? I built 1 on ford the other night and Im looking around 50k for the truck, I know the auto trans will pull more, but I badly want a 6spd because I preffer to shift gears myself. Pretty much Im looking at a f-450 4x4 6spd 4door with some creature comforts and thats it, will this be enough truck for this trailer or should I look at something bigger?
I think a F450 is the smallest truck that I would consider using. You will of course need a CDL with that rig. I'd guess GVWR for that trailer at 21k with three 7k axles. You could have as much as 30% on the tongue all said and done, so you want to make sure you have that available payload on the truck. A medium duty would be better, but you have to haul around the family too.
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1996 F250 4x4 ext. cab, long bed 5 spd. 3.55ls, Tymar Intake, Tymar 4" downpipe and 4" exhaust. AIC, B&W turnoverball, EBPV brake, tranny temp gauge, boost gauge, and egt gauge. 235k miles and thousands of $$$$ in maintenance and repairs.
The website doesn't include specs for the trailer chassis, so you have to either call them or guess. Common axles for those type trailers have 5,000, 6,000 or 7,000 pounds capacity per axle. 5,000 capacity means 15" tires. 6,000 capacity means cheap ordinary 16" wheels with LT235/85R16E or ST235/80R16E tires. 7,000 capacity means expensive wheels and tires rated 3,500 pounds or more per tire. So I'd guess "standard" would be 6,000 pound axles.
Three 6,000-pound axles would be 18,000 combined GAWR, or a bit over 21,000 GVWR. So count on the trailer grossing 21,000 when loaded for bear.
Goosenecks when properly loaded will have around 20 to 25 percent hitch weight. So plan on 25 percent, or 5,250 pounds hitch weight.
21,000 trailer plus at least 9,000 wet and loaded tow vehicle weight means a minimum of 30,000 gross combined weight on the road.
Your deam truck of an F-450 pickup with stick shifter has a GCWR of 27,000 pounds. Not enough for your minimum 30k load.
The 2008 F-450 pickup with automagic tranny has a GCWR of 33,000 pounds. That's what you need for a trailer with a GVWR of 21,000 pounds.
9,000 tow vehicle plus 5,250 hitch weight means a minimum of 14,250 GVW. The F-450 pickup has a GVWR of 14,500, so that will do it.
The F-550 chassis cab is not the answer either. With a stick shifter and high capacity trailer tow pkg, the GCWR is 28,000 pounds. Still not enough for your dream trailer.
(The F-550 has the same GCWR as the F-450 chassis cab, but it has a lot more GVWR. So the cliche "the F-450 is for towing, the F-550 is for hauling.")
If you insist on a stick shifter in a truck that is rated to tow a 21k trailer, then you're looking at an MDT (medium duty truck) such as the F-650, Freightliner FL-60, or International 4300. For the F-650, there are numerous options available, including about 20 different variations of engine and drivetrains from Cat, Cummins, International, Fuller, Eaton, and Allison, as well as numerous options of rear axle ratio. 6 and 7-speed manual trannys, as well as an semi-automatic stick shift from Fuller or Eaton and several automatics from Allison. You can even get an old-fashioned 2-speed rear axle with some combos of engine/tranny. Three different frame styles, including the ProLoader low-profile "kick up" frame that you'd probably want for an RV toter. Ford Commercial Truck
Ford doesn't sell the bodies, but there are numerous aftermarket outfitters that will install a tow body or a flat bed set up for towing a gooseneck. Several of those outfitters are included in the sticky post at Beds and Tow Bodies for Chassis Cab Trucks
For example, check out Mountain Master who will build you an F-650 trailer toter.
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My Sierra Blanca is a '99.5 PSD CrewCab hot-rod Towing Machine! BTS tranny; TurboRamAir intake and 4" stainless turbo-back exhaust; DP-Tuner tunes flashed into an Edge Evolution tuner; ISSPRO EV gauges and TTM; AIC; SP-Diesel exhaust brake and torque converter controller. I special-ordered it new and plan to drive it until it quits.
Last edited by SmokeyWren : 06-21-2008 at 01:36 PM.
Reason: fix typos
So basically I can kiss my 6sp tranny good bye and get the auto. Granted I do want a manual, but I really dont want to step up to MDT's esp because my wife will have to drive it sometimes. The trailer Im looking at will have 7k axles under it. As for the CDL portion Im covered Ive got my Class A w/hazmat, doubles, and tanker. Another question for yall, on my truck and trailer (when I get them) should I just go ahead and get "Not for Hire" stickers put on them?
Depending on where you look, you can find a good used med. duty truck. Some have 8.3L Cummins sized engine (max 300HP). I've seen small semi trucks built buy Ford that had the 8.3L and a 10 speed w/ tandem axles- though it's air brakes. You'll need to stick w/ hydraulic.....
I've seen used crew cab IH and Freights w/ hydraulic brakes. They'd be perfect for towing a trailer. Enough room for everyone and the capacity. You could prob. pick up a used one, put a flat bed on it and still not go over $30,000 for the tow rig.
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1999 E-350 Cub Wagon, 7.3L Power Stroke, E4OD, 3.55
1990 E-350 Club Wagon, 7.3L IDI, E4OD, 3.54LS
1983 F-150 2x4, 4.9L, C-6 w/GV-OD, 3.55 Farm pickup
1981 C-8000, 3208 CAT, RT-6510, Rockwell SSHD Tandems (Swap)
1977 K100C, NTC-350, RT-1110, Tandem
1977 Transtar II, NTC-290, RT-9509 Single
1977 Transtar II, Formula 290, RT0-9513, Tandem
1974 C-750, 391CID, Clark 5 speed, Eaton 2 speed
Railway, Power Utilities, and City fleets often have crewcab medium duties. I have seen International and Freightliners personally. The Power Utilities are most often air brake, but the rest are usually hydraulic.
Might be able to pick one up on auction.
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95 F350 Crew 5spd/4.10, SuperChips tuner, solid flywheel, T444E waterpump, 205° stat, Locked F&R, 9.00R16 Michelin XLs
97 E350 SRW cutaway, E4OD/D70/4.10, 19.5s on the rear, deep trans pan, batteries inside, 1800W inverter, manual glowplugs
84 C30 Suburban, 6.2/4-spd, 3.21s
Other rigs I goof around with regularly:
93 F350 4x4, 7.3 IDI turbo, 5spd, 4.10s
90 F250 4x4, 7.3 IDI, 5spd, 3.55s, D60 swap, straight pipe, turned up fuel screw
One downside to a used MDT from a utility or govt fleet is that most of them would be low HP and spartan interiors. They aren't specced for comfort or speed/power, just what is minimally needed to do the job. When I was looking for a crewcab MDT to pull my 40' fifth wheel, all I could find were 200-250 horse trucks that I wasn't going to be happy with due to the lack of pulling and climbing ability. I ended up ordering a new crewcab 4400 with a DT 570 (310/950) with an Allison 6 spd auto and even that would get slow on some of the grades in CA and Utah. This was running at about 32.5k, with 16.5k on the 3 trailer axles. So I would advise you to skip the pickups, and go to a MDT or HDT, because you probably won't be happy with the performance. It'll stop a whole lot better also, especially with air brakes (which I would recommend).
This is just my personal experience, so take it as that and nothing more.
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John
98 Explorer XLT,
00 F-350 4X4,
05 Ford Five Hundred,
06 IH 4400 for trailer pulling,
85 Ford 4610 tractor
Sometimes bigger is cheaper too. These conversions should be considered for hauling a trailer that big. Larry Zeigler
"Pices for my Conversions have ranged from a low of $30,900, to a high of $52,000 depending on a variety of factors. "
Maybe I should add in that this truck is also gonna be my daily driver. I appreciate the feed back guys, If I can I want to stick with the 450, get into anything bigger than that, and my wife probably wont drive it, and that means when we go on trips I will do all the driving.
Maybe I should add in that this truck is also gonna be my daily driver. I appreciate the feed back guys, If I can I want to stick with the 450, get into anything bigger than that, and my wife probably wont drive it, and that means when we go on trips I will do all the driving.
With the 450 will she need a CDL in your state??
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Feb 03 6.0 Silver F-250 SD SC XLT long box, 6-spd 3.73ls, Fx4, Stock, Spray-in liner, Contico box.HARPOONED.
California requires a non-commercial class A license to tow a fifth wheel travel trailer weighing over 15,000 lbs.
That is the license that I have. It was very easy to obtain. I just took an easy written test, and the driving test was waived at the discretion of the examiner.
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2001 F350 XLT 4X4, shift on the fly, 38 gal fuel tank, running boards, sliding rear window, black, crew cab, long bed, 4.10, automatic transmission, 11,500 gvwr, 20,000 gcwr, 7500 gvw, dual rear wheels, 7.3l turbo diesel, completely stock, 114,00 miles when purchased, now has 125,000 miles, repairs so far: starter, batteries, cps.
2005 Nomad Rampage toyhauler made by Skyline. 11,500lb gvwr.
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