Due to the array of answers of my last post (Who needs to stop at a weigh station?), I thought I'd throw this one out there. My scenario is that I'm towing a 6600lb trailer with a 4700lb storage container on the back. I have a container business and I move these regularly meaning a few times a week. I do travel through 3 states totaling about 160 each way from my house in order to purchase containers. My company name and logo are in big letters on the side of my truck. Am I to assume that because the combined weight of the truck, trailer, and container are more the 10,000lbs, I need a DOT number?
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2004 F350 / Crew Cab / Short Bed / Diesel / Lariat / Single Rear Wheels
Picture of my rig with my gooseneck dropping off a shipping container at a customer's house:
HERE is the place to find out. It's the US DOT website. This link goes to a place to register for a number. Select the top choice and there are questions to answer to see if you need a number. If you do, you can continue and get one. If not, you don't need the number.
Sounds like you are engaged in Interstate Commerce, especially with a company name on the truck.
Therefore, you are required to comply regardless of the trailer weight.
The reason you got different answers to your weigh station question is that you failed to indicate the nature of your business and that the truck has name and logo on it. In short you're running a commercial operation. You may get away with it for a while but the dot is going to notice that you've been past him before and he'll want to ask questions sooner or later.
Another thing to think about is that poeple that have gone through the paperwork and expense will rat you out, especially if you are competition.
Capt Ron
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May 2003 F-350, CC, DRW, 6.0L, 6sp man, LB, Al Wheels, Moon Roof, 52gal tranfer tank. Hitches: Draw-Tite 16K 4X and B&W GN, 8040lbs GVW. Towing 35' Newmar Kountry Star 5th Wheel Camper, 14,000lbs GVW, or Wells Cargo 24' Car Hauler, 12,000lbs GVW.
FMCSR 390.5: (which pertains to definitions of actual vehicles)
COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE means and self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle--
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or . . .
If you were not doing "commerce", you could probably get away with it, as long as your gross combined rating and actual weight were under 26K. Also, if you were strictly intrastate (which is what it not what it sounded like- traveling through 3 states) the Federal FMCSR would not apply and you would have to consult state laws. But they would probably be MORE restrictive anyway.
So . . . bottom line is "YES". DOT number required.
However, a CDL is *NOT* required, even if your trailer is above 10K, until the combo vehicle exceeds 26K, according to:
FMCSR 383.5 (which pertains to CDL requirements):
Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport persons or property if the motor vehicle--
(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or . . .
That's an answer to a question you didn't ask, but it illustrates how the rules are different for different things -- when you need a DOT number and when you need a CDL.
It also sort of explains why, in New York anyway, my F-350 is plated commercial no matter what, unless I have a slide-in camper and get RV plates. I cannot get any other kind of plate. However, I do not need a CDL to drive it. The "tractor" is rated above 10K, therefore by definition it is a "commercial vehicle". My trailer is rated 14K, but my combo vehicle is not rated above 26K. Therefore I do not need a CDL - regardless of how I use it. My tractor and trailer are both rated and/or loaded (actual weight) above 10K, but are not used "for hire" or commerce, therefore I do not need a DOT number.
Just my opinion, based on the FMCSR book in front of me. I'm sure J_APetersen or some other expert will jump in and suggest than I'm wrong.
Your right Steve, besides no big thing to get a DOT # just tell them you want one is all. Better safe than sorry.
Today is the 2nd day of the 72 hour safety check, on I-684 north in NY they had 2 hot-shot pickups in when I passed thru.
I made my "visit" yesterday on the south side of 684 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]
Passed no problem, told me to wear my seat belt next time though [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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2002 F-350 SC SRW long bed 4X4 7.3 PSD Auto, Island blue,
38 Chev sedan delivery all steel, 350, TH400,A-C PW PS PDB, Yellow,
2000 Kenworth W900 600Hp Cat 18 spd 3:70 green
I use to be in the business , my information is correct as of 5 years ago. I don't think anything has changed.
If you have a company truck and only transport company product or product to be used by your company then you do not need a DOT number. remember you cannot take any load as a backhaul or pull a container to deliver to someone else unless you own it.
If you start to get a number you will open a can of worms I haven't seen mentioned such as Federal Highway Use Tax and fuel reports.
Oh, boy.....you got that right about can-o-worms!!!
At work we were running from OH to PA a few times a year. To find out that we needed a DOT number to do that. We're rated 15K on truck so that warrants a DOT number to travel between states. That opens up reports and audits that go with it. Physical cards, maintenance reports, log books(if used).....blah, blah, blah.
We have since refrained from doing this run with F450. We now use our F150 and a small trailer to keep under the 10K rule.
Just not worth the hassle and paperwork for the random trips we make. The sad part is we've been doing it for 18 yrs now with no hassles....but a competitor got stopped and busted [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
__________________ THE ORIGINAL "FREIGHTRAIN" 1959 B61 Mack...15 gears of twin stick, black smoke huffin' fun 1967 F100 LB....352 ci/4 spd, nice daily runner 1969 F100 SB.....428 cubic inches of dual quad, 4 speed terror. 1964 Galaxie......390 cubic inches of blown big block...with a 4 speed 1964 Galaxie Country Sedan Wagon.....428 ci and 5 speeds of wheelstanding race car 40ft Haulmark trailer..for the car, quad, AND kitchen sink FOKISD MEMBER ATHS MEMBER....old trucks RULE!
If your gross vehicle weight is 10,000 lbs or greater you will need a us dot number. If you cross state lines and are for hire meaning that you haul property that belongs to others for compenstation you will also need your motor carrier authority. If you also exceed 26,000 lbs you will need IFTA, IRP and other permits as well.
Last edited by SmokeyWren : 10-31-2008 at 09:04 AM.
Reason: commercial pitch deleted
You don't only need DOT numbers but a bunch of other things.
Off the top of my head,
#1 DOT numbers (with these it's said you don't need your name/city on truck)
#2 Health Card (every two years)
#3 Log Book (going back 7 days if crossing state lines or traveling 100+ miles from the place of business)
#4 Fire Ext.
#5 Warning Triangles
#6 Annual Inspections
#7 Working break away breaks
#8 Working Lights
#9 Reflective Markers on trailer
#10 Proof of insurance
#11 Title card
This list could keep going...
BTW, if you get nailed with tickets like I did a couple months ago make sure to go to court. I went from three tickets over my head to getting just one.
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99(4/99)F350 PSD 4X4 crew cab long bed dually lariat isspro triple pod air bags with compressor
99(6/99)F250 PSD 4X4 X-cab short bed xlt 5in str8 piped air bags autometer ultra light triple pod junk yard pcm running 22 psi 250k miles bought 8/15/01 w/40k miles first diesel
00(12/99)Excursion PSD 4X4 limited
65 Mustang 289 V8 4brl 69 GTO 400 4spd 99 Neon R/T
04 and 09 PJ 15k dump trailer 04 H&H 9K tilt bed 98 Haulmark 7x14 enclosed
If your gross vehicle weight is 10,000 lbs or greater you will need a us dot number. If you cross state lines and are for hire meaning that you haul property that belongs to others for compenstation you will also need your motor carrier authority. If you also exceed 26,000 lbs you will need IFTA, IRP and other permits as well.
How about my company who does roofing? Is the old shingles in the dump trailer considered the home owners property? Would it be considered my property once I leave the property since it's going to the big hole in the ground? I don't cross state lines for business though, plenty of work in MN.
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99(4/99)F350 PSD 4X4 crew cab long bed dually lariat isspro triple pod air bags with compressor
99(6/99)F250 PSD 4X4 X-cab short bed xlt 5in str8 piped air bags autometer ultra light triple pod junk yard pcm running 22 psi 250k miles bought 8/15/01 w/40k miles first diesel
00(12/99)Excursion PSD 4X4 limited
65 Mustang 289 V8 4brl 69 GTO 400 4spd 99 Neon R/T
04 and 09 PJ 15k dump trailer 04 H&H 9K tilt bed 98 Haulmark 7x14 enclosed
How about my company who does roofing? Is the old shingles in the dump trailer considered the home owners property? Would it be considered my property once I leave the property since it's going to the big hole in the ground? I don't cross state lines for business though, plenty of work in MN.
You aren't crossing state lines, but, you are providing a service (removing shingles from someone's property) and being compensated for it (or I assume you are, it is your time and equipment being used for the removal of said shingles and I imagine you accounted for it somewhere in your bill to the homeowner). The recurring theme I hear in these debates is ARE YOU MAKING MONEY WITH THIS VEHICLE? If the answer is yes and you are heavier than a states minimum requirement you will have a very hard time proving otherwise.
dot number wouldn't hurt for the shingle guy. you should not need to keep logs since you are within 100 mile radius of your home terminal.
I do have DOT numbers on two of the three trucks. Got pulled over by a Cop this Summer while in tow and was handed three tickets, no health card, inoperable break away breaks, and no DOT numbers. He gave me a few warnings on other stuff too. Went to court and the fines went from 3 at $550 to 1 at $215.
Gonna guess I will need annual inspections on the trailers and work trucks?
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99(4/99)F350 PSD 4X4 crew cab long bed dually lariat isspro triple pod air bags with compressor
99(6/99)F250 PSD 4X4 X-cab short bed xlt 5in str8 piped air bags autometer ultra light triple pod junk yard pcm running 22 psi 250k miles bought 8/15/01 w/40k miles first diesel
00(12/99)Excursion PSD 4X4 limited
65 Mustang 289 V8 4brl 69 GTO 400 4spd 99 Neon R/T
04 and 09 PJ 15k dump trailer 04 H&H 9K tilt bed 98 Haulmark 7x14 enclosed
You don't only need DOT numbers but a bunch of other things.
Off the top of my head,
#1 DOT numbers (with these it's said you don't need your name/city on truck)
#2 Health Card (every two years)
#3 Log Book (going back 7 days if crossing state lines or traveling 100+ miles from the place of business)
#4 Fire Ext.
#5 Warning Triangles
#6 Annual Inspections
#7 Working break away breaks
#8 Working Lights
#9 Reflective Markers on trailer
#10 Proof of insurance
#11 Title card
This list could keep going...
BTW, if you get nailed with tickets like I did a couple months ago make sure to go to court. I went from three tickets over my head to getting just one.
He should have working breakaway brakes, lights, and DOT tape on the trailer to begin with.
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Evan-
2003 Ford F-350 Crew Cab L/B/Dually XLT FX4 7.3L/Auto- Gooseneck Hitch Fifth Wheel Rails, Firestone Air Bags/ Toolbox
Linear Mode
