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Old 07-28-2005, 05:55 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: 3406B vs. 3406C (425)

FYI...3406C was available both ways...mechanical fuel system and electronic (PEEC). C model plunger and barrels are different than B, this change basically eliminates the ability to turn the fuel up. You could remove the fuel setting screws on a C and change the power very little, on a B a little change makes a huge difference...1 turn = 100HP in my experience...
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Old 07-29-2005, 12:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: 3406B vs. 3406C (425)

You're not getting the answer to that power question.
The C model as mentioned had some better features than the B model. Also, the head bolts were a bit stronger, 12 point rather than a traditional 6 point hex fastener (they certainly needed head gasket help after the fun and games of dropping asbestos in the filler material). C's were not neccessarily electronic, but if they were, they'd be called 3406C, PEEC I or PEEC III. I believe Ford tied up all the PEEC II engines. That wasn't too successful. As far a power settings between the two, we compared several in various different rigs when they first came out and based on posted MM of pump rack settings and actual power to the ground it seemed they may not have been quite as strong, apples for apples (C to the B). I sort of figured they might have messed around with the cam profile for emissions. As far as the fuel pump goes, I believe there was no difference in its cam size, and the Cat inline pump couldn't really be hurt anyways. I wasn't aware of a difference in plunger and barrel diameter, but that would have been a good way for Cat to limit fuel available. Most of our work was on the B models.
The one nice thing on both fuel systems was how easy it is to turn your fuel/ power up. With a well running engine, just back out the fuel and torque screw equal amounts, or if you drive reasonably, relocate them to the glove box.
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Old 08-01-2005, 09:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: 3406B vs. 3406C (425)

Lorne, You obviously have the hands-on experience and knowledge Im looking for. I put a pyro in the truck this past weekend and carried 2 loads of 80k lbs. Even on long reasonably steep grades the temp never got past 750F. This is after 9 rounds on both screws and .5" worth of timing added. You say to back the fuel and torque screws all the way out?! Any idea of what torque level that will be? Horsepower? The power falls on its face after 1700. The guy whose truck I would like to match, is getting me a part number for an stiffer govenor spring. The truck, when received, was obviously turned down. Assuming the screws were nearly as tight as possible, how many turns approximately will it take to get them out? Can they be reinstalled without much difficulty? I really want to beat my friends truck on these hills. His head is just a little too big. He can literally run off and leave his fathers 500hp detroit on any hill. THis is with 3.70 gears. Mine has 4.11 (slight advantage to work with). Thanks a million.
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: 3406B vs. 3406C (425)

[ QUOTE ]
FYI...3406C was available both ways...mechanical fuel system and electronic (PEEC). C model plunger and barrels are different than B, this change basically eliminates the ability to turn the fuel up. You could remove the fuel setting screws on a C and change the power very little, on a B a little change makes a huge difference...1 turn = 100HP in my experience...

[/ QUOTE ] I have been able to get more fuel at lower rpms it just wont pull past 1700. I didnt see your post on my previous visit when I replied to Lorne. Your experience is equally appreciated. Is there any way to overcome the fuel limitations you speak of?
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Old 12-25-2005, 07:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: 3406B vs. 3406C (425)

I have 2 identical petes one has a 1994 3406B and the other is a 1996 C. These 2 trucks are geared the same etc. Niether has been cranked up. The C engine will pull hills a lot better than the B model. You stated your engine quites pulling at 1700rpm. I know this sounds stupid but the same happened to me on my C model. The throttle linkage was not allowing the fuel rack to travel to the full open position. A quick adjustment and the motor now pulls to 2100 easy.It was like adding 100 hp. Be careful turning the fuel up on these engines as your reliablity will suffer. My buddy had a 3406B that would shame 550's but it's junk now. I have a yard full of 3406 cats with rods sticking thru the blocks. My 96 B 425 will run right with my 97 E 550 model. Best way to tell whats goin on is pay $450 and have it put on a chassis dyno. This will give you true hp and torque at the rear wheels. I have a 2000 C-12 rated at 435hp and it ran like crap. I had it to cat several times and was told it was OK. Put it on the Dyno and it was only showing 370hp at the wheels. It blew up 2 weeks later. I have seen 3406 B's show 500hp at the wheels not cranked and cranked up engines only 400hp. There is more to it than adding fuel.
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Old 12-25-2005, 11:06 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: 3406B vs. 3406C (425)

"turning the fuel up" is a recipe for disaster only if its not done at the pump oonly and no other changes are made.if the pump only is increased then all you are doing is dumping lots of fuel into the cylinders without the supporting cast of timing,turbo,and injector mods.go to dieselinjection.com and read the HP and TQ pages to find out how to safely increase power without ruining an engine.
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: 3406B vs. 3406C (425)

I see you guys dusted the cobwebs off of this thread, but I can't resist posting anyway;

The 3406C may look alot like the B model, but the path to bigger horsepower is different. If you go to a shop that suggests removing the rack screws and cranking up the timing first, I'd be looking for a different shop as they obviously don't know 3406C mechanicals. You don't need someone experimenting with your engine as the cost of engine failure will be yours if something goes wrong.

Post your serial number please and the mileage on this engine. 3ZJ,8PN prefix or other?

HP upgrades are dependant on your specific engine. There are many changes in 3406C mechanical parts over the 5 or 6 years they were built.

Is your engine properly tuned to start with? You likely have restricted fuel nozzles, worn or misadjusted timing advance, leaking bonnet to barrels, leaking AFRC or intake system.

High serial number 3ZJ engines have different check valves that restrict fuel flow so much that rack setting increase has little effect.

There were alot of nozzle problems early on which could accelerate internal pump leakage. The low serial number engines were the worst for bonnet/barrel leakage. There were many combinations of bonnet/bushings which have eventually changed up to the best design. Usually the old design parts would take out the barrel necessitating a P&B replacement also. In the hey day of the 3406C'S we did a barrel/bonnet lap approximately every 2 years on the high hp units.

There were factory authorized changes to the AFRC also to get more response on certain units.

I would leave the timing at spec, we often extended the range of advance. 3406C's tended to run worse with more static advance and you increase your risk of meltdown. If your not setting your advance with the electronic timing kit your just guessing and probably going to make things worse. I'd be setting your pin timing back to dead on or no more than half a hole advanced at the flywheel hole till you can get the advance properly set.


3406C is a much better engine to high horse than a 3406B. A freshly tuned 3406C would outpull a 500 E CAT, but usually not a 550.
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Old 12-28-2005, 11:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: 3406B vs. 3406C (425)

im looking at a truck with a 3406b peec(thats what they called it )in a 1990 frtlnr that i can get cheap.it is 310hp and want to know how easy/expensive it would be to turn it up to 425+ hp safely.thx
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New ride 1995 FRTLNR FLD120 Reman DD12.7 470hp,13spd,3.08 rears.Yeah I know,all the DD bashing I've done and I go and buy one.With the reman in it for $14,750 my mechanic said if I didn't buyit he would.
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