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Old 08-22-2006, 10:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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353 Detroit Genset

I have a genset with a 353 Detroit that has set for a few years. I have fresh fuel running through the fuel rail but I cannot get the get the injectors to inject any fuel into the cylinders. I removed the valve cover and noticed the governor arm that opens the fuel rack appears to be stuck. I removed the pin attaching the arm to the rack and the governer arm then moves fine. However I can't seem to get the fuel rack arm to move. Any suggestions on getting it freed up.


Thanks
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

If your rack is not free to roll in and out, then one or more of the injectors is probably gummed up/ seized from sitting. Chances are it would therefore be adviseable pull all three and have them serviced or replaced. If you want to not do that, you could probably coax some life from them by tapping arms in and out, then working rack fore and aft, once moving freely again a real stiff dose of Fleetgard fuel conditioner through the system when run (fill primary filter half'n half, and run so fuel will circulate through a small one gallon container for a while. This will remove gum and varnish. Water damage is another matter. Once had a 2-71 genset, fondly referred to as "Asparagus Tips"
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

You forgot to mention what kind of governor is on the engine. If it is a hydralic governor the racks will be in the NO fuel posistion with this governor. ONLY with this governor. You should have a 'knob' at the governor end that is like a button. This is for you to push for a quick start. The oil in the engine pumps up to a bowl next to the governor. [hint here]. There is a little sandpipe in this bowl that the oil is driven to and goes to the lower section of the governor. The little oil pump in the governor then takes this oil and 'opens' up the flyweights and moves the racks to the operating posistion. NOW, you could have an electric solenoid in the supply line OR, there might be a solenoild in the 'dump line'.
First, if it is a hydralic governor, loosen the oil line TO the governor, make sure there is oil going to the governor. If not, check that bowl for oil in there. There should be oil in that bowl. If there is only 1 oil line to the governor then there is no shutoff solenoid for this purpose. The genset is shutoff at the governor itself.
They make a 'constant speed governor' but this acts like a normal governor except the engine is driven at a set speed regardless of load. This governor was used on 'railcars' because the load was constant therefor the name constant speed.
Any other kind of governor used on a gen set is junk. They are not responsive to the needs of the load. Hope this helps a little. It has been a while since I worked on a gen set governor. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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It is said if you sit by the river and watch the water flow by long enough, your enemies will pass by. This I believe to be true. It is also possible to watch your loved ones pass by as well.
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Old 08-24-2006, 08:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

That governor setup does not sound familiar at all. Let me look at it this afternoon and maybe get some pictures. There is a big solenoid beside the valve cover at the left rear corner of the engine. That solenoid move an arm that goes down to the fuel pump and also tries to move the arm going up to the injector fuel rack under the valve cover. I am guessing that arm is connected to the governor. Again I will try to get some pictures this afternoon. I am sure it will be much easier to explain with pictures...

jb
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

Hurry, I am going on vacation and will not have internet access for 9 days. [ouch, I'm lost]. Friday will be it for a week.
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It is said if you sit by the river and watch the water flow by long enough, your enemies will pass by. This I believe to be true. It is also possible to watch your loved ones pass by as well.
Wife Candi 08/14/07 missing her always
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Old 08-25-2006, 04:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

Have a great trip,we miss you already!!)Ron G
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Old 08-25-2006, 08:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

I was not able to get any pictures yesterday. I will get some as soon as I can. No big rush as I am not sure just how long it has been sitting anyway. I know it has been a number of years...I will try to dig a little deeper tomorrow if I get a chance. I am looking forward to hearing this thing run (without ether..) The generator head data shows 208 3 phase at 1200 rpms. Must be a 6 pole generator. That is a little unusual. That is really just a fast idle speed. I suspect it will be rather quiet.
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Old 08-25-2006, 10:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

I will be watching this closesly. I have always been curious about a 1200 RPM Detroit and how it will run.

How much power does it put out?

Birken
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Old 08-25-2006, 10:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

I read your first note again. If you remove the rack pin on the rack, The injectors should move back and forth EASY. You said the governor rod moves but not the injector rack. Correct? If this is so, remove the rack pin as I said. one of those injectors is stuck in the no fuel posistion. remember this only the case if the rack does NOT move and the governor rod does. Replace the injector. Torque on the injector bolt is 25, rocker arm bolt is 50. sounds more like a constant speed governor but maybe a hydralic. Yes these engines were quiet, however I can let you know on a fix if you ever have to replace the head. You cannot buy a 2 valve head. All series 53 heads are 4 valve. You will have to modify the exhaust system to fix this engine of yours if the head is ever cracked. Good luck with the looking, will be back in a few days.[8]. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it's cool at 8700 ft.
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It is said if you sit by the river and watch the water flow by long enough, your enemies will pass by. This I believe to be true. It is also possible to watch your loved ones pass by as well.
Wife Candi 08/14/07 missing her always
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Old 08-27-2006, 12:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

[ QUOTE ]
I will be watching this closesly. I have always been curious about a 1200 RPM Detroit and how it will run.


[/ QUOTE ]

They seem to do pretty well. My neighbor has a 353 genset that he runs during sugaring season when he has a huge electrical demand (running vaccum pumps and such 24 hours a day). I'm not sure how fast his is set up to run, but just from listening to it, I'd say it's spinning less than 1500 rpm. It barely uses any fuel, and ends up being cheaper than grid power for those few weeks a year.
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

Well it finally lives again. Thanks for all the help. I finally found the time to remove the injectors and unstick them. With a good cleaning and a little penetrating fluid I was able to tap the fuel rails in and out until they were free. Also the plunger was stuck down on all three as well. I had all three freed up and working in less than an hour. I replaced them last night and the little beast roared to life after at least a 15 year slumber. It was apparently just old fuel that had everything stuck. I did run it for at least an hour and a half last night with a heavy dose of injector cleaner in the fuel and it didn't miss a beat. It also used very little fuel.(Less than 3/4 gallon.) It is a little concerning when it first starts. It makes you think that it is going to run away before the governor brings the speed back down. Once the governor brings the speed back down it is as steady as a rock. No hunting at all. However I have not yet been able to put any load on it so we will see what happens then. According to the some of the other guys at the museum it has always started like that. They said the first time they started it years ago there was some old man hanging around and when it first started he really tried to run away from it...

It really seem to be running a little faster than 1200 rpm's to me but I didn't have my frequency meter with me last night so I could not verify it. It is a little bit noisier than I thought it would be but then again that is just a trait of the 2 stroke detroit's. If the frequency is out of range I may have to have some other help in getting the governor adjusted. It is not readily apparent just how to adjust it.

Thanks again for all the help.

jb
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

RE: It is a little bit noisier than I thought it would be

There is no diesel engine on the planet that makes more noise than
a screaming jimmie. they hold the worlds records for converting diesel to noise.

The 53 series detroits are vastly more noisey than the 71's.

Some of it is exhaust noise, but the blower houles, and they rattle, knock and vibrate. we have had 3's 4's 6's and even 8's and the noise is all a common feature. 3's and 4's used to be standardr fare in log skidders --- applications that have now been taken over by benign engines like the B and C series cummins and all they did was make noise and because of the torque curve (none) you always had to run them pedal to the metal because if you cut them any slack the fire went out.

the 53 I still use the most is an 8V53--- perhaps the rarest of all the 53 configurations in a large excavator. Everyone in a mile or two knows when the excavator is going and when its working.....

Smoke and noise are unbelievable, but it always starts easily and never has a problem....

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Old 10-11-2006, 09:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

Set the thing up and plug in an electric clock. One with a second hand. Use a stop watch or other watch and watch the second hand for 1 minute. You should see a full 60 seconds on the electric clock when you compare the 2.
BTW, I used to set them at 60.5 cycles. Made for a faster response and when a load was placed on it it stayed at 60 cycles. Glad to hear it is up and running. 1200 rpm for that engine is a quiet engine. Just use a larger exhaust system and a good air cleaner. I had one in a pickup and sprayed undercoating on the interior of the hood. I even added carleting on the outside of the aircleaner. You could carry on a normal conversation inside the cab at a full 3050 rpm's. [I set the rpm's up just a tad].
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It is said if you sit by the river and watch the water flow by long enough, your enemies will pass by. This I believe to be true. It is also possible to watch your loved ones pass by as well.
Wife Candi 08/14/07 missing her always
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

My trusty Fluke 87 said it was running 63Hz so that adds up to 1260 rpm's. That may be a little high with no load but won't be a problem for what we will be using it for. I would always prefer to err on the high side than the low side on a genset! Also the governor brought the speed down much quicker when I started it yesterday than it did the first couple of times that I started it. Looks like it just wanted to be exercised a little bit...Imagine that. It doesn't like to sit for 15 years and be expected to still be working. Anyway I suspect that it is quite healthy now as it has already began to leak oil around the valve cover just like any respectable 2 stroke jimmy should!

Thanks again for all the help.

jb
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: 353 Detroit Genset

63 is too fast, like Hank said 60.5 is more like it, I prefer to set them around 60.2 no load depending on how precise the governor is. Obviously you want it to be running around 60.0 at 50% load but the trouble is, some motors are extremely finicky about what frequency they want to run on, and may burn up. I have found I can get it pretty darn close just by listening to a motor and/or flourescent light and when it sounds "happy" I know I am pretty near on freq. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Birken
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