9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Go Back   Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Other Topics > General Diesel

General Diesel Discussion about diesels in general. All brands are welcome, please refrain from brand wars. Discussions about types of diesel fuel also go here.

TheDieselstop.com is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2007, 11:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 37
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

My 84 volvo has a 3406b 400 in it with a fuller t-11609a. 3.55 rears. I am hearing noise, like a winding sound, in the trans in 3rd on th low side, and top hole on the high side,it wines some and gets alot worse when ya split it into 13,someone has put a 13-speed box on it i guess. its real bad when you slip high gear. i know some 13s have a winding, but this one is winding too bad, in just a few gears. I have a 9513 laying around here, how well will the 9513s hold up to a 3406b 400 with 3.55 oil is full, and dont bad at all..... thanks for any input

adam
__________________
87 f-250, 2wd, 6.9 auto.....a little bit of fuel to it

02 dodge 4x4 cummins 5-speed...5 inch straight pipe, edge comp, stage 4 injectors....but I still like the ol 6.9
snowman3406 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-19-2007, 01:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
KTTA720's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 291
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via ICQ to KTTA720
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

The 9513 is a good tranny, im not sure behind a 400 horse cat though but as long as you dont jackrabbit start dump the clutch etc anything will live, as for the whining every fuller i have seen will whine when you let off in any gear slowing down, just my 2cents worth

Josh
__________________
2002 Ford F250 6speed Extended cab long bed XLT sport, black 5in lift 35" tires three 12" Memphis Subs, over 2000w power, Kenwood CD player with video screen. Powerstroke out and 6BT Cummins 12v IN 20MPG!!!!

79W900AEXHD 3406BATA 425, 9X4 60in flattop long wheelbase DS402 on pete air leaf

67 GTO Ram air III 400 10.5:1 compression isky lopin cam, edelbrock cam intake carb and headers, built th400, 5spd soon to come 3:90 Posi

Company stuff:

77 Kenworth, KTA 15over Eatons on Tortion

78 Autocar BC444 15X4 triple frame Hendrickson on SSHD best logger

61 B75 mack on 84 pete frame 400 Cummins 14615 on air ride SQHPs Long and tall Black and chrome

http://community.webshots.com/user/KTTA720
KTTA720 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 02:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 37
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

I agree with ya on the idea that 13s do wine> my other truck had a 14613 that wined, not excessive like this. You can listen to this one and know somethings not right about it, and it doent seem to do it in all the gears. like a bearing or something is scored up or loose. Also, someone has put a 13 box on the back, not sure if they did something wrong, it was like that before i bought it. i never really tore a transmission down completely to do a rebuild, i know these have something about timing them, but i never done it. hopefully one of the transmission gurus will come along with a idea of what it might be though.........

adam
__________________
87 f-250, 2wd, 6.9 auto.....a little bit of fuel to it

02 dodge 4x4 cummins 5-speed...5 inch straight pipe, edge comp, stage 4 injectors....but I still like the ol 6.9
snowman3406 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 08:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cody, Wy
Posts: 9,953
My Photos: (27)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

They're one of the most reliable transmissions out there. In fact when they first came out, they pretty much quickly dominated the industry over the 5X4 main and Brownie boxes. They have twin countershafts (which divides the torque) and adds to their longevity. There's a lot of magnets epoxied in both case sections to catch and hold metallic particles floating around in the oil. They're also about the most forgiving transmission out there for a guy that's learning to drive truck. I've driven quite a few but never heard any type of abnormal whine unless it has a problem. The biggest thing in most all of them is a harmonic buzz that is in the shift lever in 5th over only, (highest highway gear) that about puts you in the nut-house. With all that said, I've overhauled a lot of them since anybody can tear up anything if they try hard enough. Compared to other boxes, just my opinion, they're about the toughest out there internally. The biggest problem is guys pre-selecting their splitter shifts, which causes abnormal wear on the fork and sleeve. However, you can pre-select your range shifts because air pressure is automatically locked out from the shift fork until you pass through neutral.
[ QUOTE ]
how well will the 9513s hold up to a 3406b 400 with 3.55 oil is full, and dont bad at all..... thanks for any input


[/ QUOTE ]
I'd think real well. A guy I drove for, in fact the red Pete somewhere in my pics, had a highly hopped up 3406 in front of a 9513, a REALLY highly hopped up Cummins Big Cam in it's twin truck with another 9513, and never a trans problem.
I think you're right, I'm having a brain-fade and to lazy to find my old Roadranger manual, seems like you do time the countershaft gears, but it can't have been difficult or any big deal or it would have stuck more in my fevered brain. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] I *do* remember, compared to some other big gearboxes, they're easy to dis-assembly and re-assemble. However, we always used pieces of rope around the gear assemblies and an overhead electric hoist to pull them out of the case to eliminate pinched fingers.
__________________
Heavy truck and diesel mechanic (thankfully retired after 30+ yrs)
'91 F-250 SC 4X4, 5spd. ATS Turbo, 3:55 diff.
LMJD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 09:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 37
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

Thanks for the replie LMJD. and what i ment to say was, the oil in the trans is full and it dont look bad at all, not burnt or real dirty. I was thinking of tearing down the 11609 that was in there right now, has the 13 box on it, and rebuilding it but i havent had a whole lot of experiance in transmissions as far as rebuilding them. changed back boxes,input shafts, shifter rails,stuff like that but havent totally dissassembled one. also, today I was under truck looking around and noticed the nut holding the yoke on the trans was a little bit loose, not real loose, but i can move the yoke up and down a little bit, could that cause my noise maybe. if i tear that tranny down, you may have to give me a few pointers on how to time it or what ever needs to be done [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]....


adam
__________________
87 f-250, 2wd, 6.9 auto.....a little bit of fuel to it

02 dodge 4x4 cummins 5-speed...5 inch straight pipe, edge comp, stage 4 injectors....but I still like the ol 6.9
snowman3406 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 09:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Williston North Dakota
Posts: 995
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

Here is the link for the service manuals & troubleshooting, and here is the Parts list catalog.

Timing the fullers is not bad at all, it must be done in the main box and the auxiliary box gear train. A couple homemade tools will help assembly also, use the old countershaft bearings and grind the inside & outside surfaces so they slide easily into the case & shaft for holding the shaft in alignment. Also, a piece of 3/8"x1" bar stock bent to hook the counter shaft with a loop on the other end for the hoist to hold and set the counter shafts in the case.

HTH
Buddy
__________________
Former Ford Diesel Tech
ASE Certified Parts Counterperson, Automotive, Medium, & Heavy Truck Technician
1999 F250 XLT 4x4, Red, 7.3 6spd AWA5, 3.73LS rear, CCV Mod, APC Headlamps, Autometer C2 Gauges, (Boost,Pyro,Trans), 4" Turbo-back exhaust, XM Radio, AIS, ITP Regulated return, fuel feed lines, Airdog, & 4pos. chip.
My Truck

2001 Ford Escort ZX2 - Black- 4cyl 2.0DOHC, 5spd.

1999 F350 4x4 XLT, CC/LB PSD, 6spd, Aluminum service bed, York Compressor Onboard air, CCV, Custom Intake & Exhaust, Strobes and a few other goodies

RIP Steph F. & Trista J., 4/27/07, you will be missed by many.
budman451 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 10:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cody, Wy
Posts: 9,953
My Photos: (27)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

[ QUOTE ]
but i can move the yoke up and down a little bit, could that cause my noise maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think Buddy-M will agree, you need to determine if the play is between the yoke and output shaft, if it's radial play in the output shaft itself (up and down, side to side), sounds like a bad output shaft bearing. If it's bad enough, that sure could give you an abnormal whine.
__________________
Heavy truck and diesel mechanic (thankfully retired after 30+ yrs)
'91 F-250 SC 4X4, 5spd. ATS Turbo, 3:55 diff.
LMJD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 08:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Northern Montana
Posts: 1,547
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

LMJD probably remembers better than me, but a 9513, 12513, and 14613 were pretty much the same transmissions, just updated. I had the splitter go out of a 9513 in a '71 Astro about 10 years ago - If I remember right (and I normally don't), it now has a 14613 splitter on it, bolted right up. And the whine is usually just that - the bearings going out of the splitter. Another neat thing about a RoadRanger - a 13 is just a 9 speed with the splitter box, you can add them to a 9.
Copper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 08:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Williston North Dakota
Posts: 995
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]

but i can move the yoke up and down a little bit, could that cause my noise maybe.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think Buddy-M will agree, you need to determine if the play is between the yoke and output shaft, if it's radial play in the output shaft itself (up and down, side to side), sounds like a bad output shaft bearing. If it's bad enough, that sure could give you an abnormal whine.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if the nut is loose or bearings worn, the gears may not mesh together correctly resulting in noise. There is a ball bearing that supports the shaft behind the yoke, and a roller bearing between the main & auxiliary main shaft. If the yoke has been loose long enough, it may have hammered out the splines on the output. Try tightening the yoke and check the noise, if it is still there, you may have to pull the transmission or just the auxiliary section and disassemble it to check if there is any problems. With how you described the whine in 3rd & 13th, two unrelated gears in the main box, the source is most likely in the auxiliary section.

Buddy
__________________
Former Ford Diesel Tech
ASE Certified Parts Counterperson, Automotive, Medium, & Heavy Truck Technician
1999 F250 XLT 4x4, Red, 7.3 6spd AWA5, 3.73LS rear, CCV Mod, APC Headlamps, Autometer C2 Gauges, (Boost,Pyro,Trans), 4" Turbo-back exhaust, XM Radio, AIS, ITP Regulated return, fuel feed lines, Airdog, & 4pos. chip.
My Truck

2001 Ford Escort ZX2 - Black- 4cyl 2.0DOHC, 5spd.

1999 F350 4x4 XLT, CC/LB PSD, 6spd, Aluminum service bed, York Compressor Onboard air, CCV, Custom Intake & Exhaust, Strobes and a few other goodies

RIP Steph F. & Trista J., 4/27/07, you will be missed by many.
budman451 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 08:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: northern,ok
Posts: 352
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

My friend and I both have 9513's behind 460hp N14s and they are doing just fine. Both of these trucks were bought as gliders and so thats why we both have the old style boxes(mine is a 77 model). If you drive it properly you can easily exceed the torque rating with out problems.The main key is to NEVER mash the throttle in the low side. There are lots of guys running modded BC's and 3406's putting out 1000ft lbs more than the rated torque. There are even a few guys running KTA's at 3000+ ft lbs through a 14613(the 14 denotes 1400ft lb rating). The old saying was drive like you have an egg between your foot and the throttle. Break the egg and you'll likely break something else.
__________________
2003 X Limited 4WD 6.0,auto,55k mi. I'd buy another if FORD still made them.
1993 F150 4WD,5.8,auto,33s,315k mi.Never been stuck.YET!
New ride 1995 FRTLNR FLD120 Reman DD12.7 470hp,13spd,3.08 rears.Yeah I know,all the DD bashing I've done and I go and buy one.With the reman in it for $14,750 my mechanic said if I didn't buyit he would.
4 SALE 1993 FRTLNR coe N14 460hp,13spd,single axle,all aluminum wheels.
claytonr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 08:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 1,307
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

[ QUOTE ]
how well will the 9513s hold up to a 3406b 400

[/ QUOTE ]Depends how heavy you are using it for. If pulling heavy trailers, no way. If just used as a tandem truck, might be okay. If I can remember back when we were trucking, the transmission info decoded as follows (RT9513)
R - roadranger transmission
T - twin countershaft
9 - torque capacity (X100) --> this tranny capable of 900 ft lbs of torque/ 12513 is 1200 ft lbs/ 14613 is 1400 ft lbs
5 - cant remember
13 - forward gears

Your 3406 400 hp is probably 1300 -1400 ft lbs of torque.
__________________
2008 F-250 Lariat SRW 4x4 CC SWB...
KEM tuned Minimaxx
... S&B CAI / MBRP Cool Duals
Dark Stone Metallic / Pueblo gold
Readylift 3.5" levelling kit
... Toyo MT 315/70/18(bigger than 35-12.50-18)

----- --- BIG$HOW -------<տլ
Bigshow is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 08:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 37
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

Well guys, I thank ya for the info. I think i am gonna do what Buddy_m said , tighten the nut and see what it does. If that dont solve it, then I am gonna just pull the 11609 out and rebuild it. reason is, because the 9513 came from an old international and the engine mounts are not on the bell housing like the volvo is since thats the factory trans, I never liked mack or volvo or ford clutch jobs for that reason, but I would have to switch bell housings anyways, might as well just go through the 11609. I havent priced kits for rebuild, does anyone happen to know a ballpark figure for parts???...thanks......

Adam
__________________
87 f-250, 2wd, 6.9 auto.....a little bit of fuel to it

02 dodge 4x4 cummins 5-speed...5 inch straight pipe, edge comp, stage 4 injectors....but I still like the ol 6.9
snowman3406 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2007, 09:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
rmyers2051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Paris, Ky. KV8OOA on 144.430
Posts: 2,068
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how well will the 9513s hold up to a 3406b 400

[/ QUOTE ]Depends how heavy you are using it for. If pulling heavy trailers, no way. If just used as a tandem truck, might be okay. If I can remember back when we were trucking, the transmission info decoded as follows (RT9513)
R - roadranger transmission
T - twin countershaft
9 - torque capacity (X100) --&gt; this tranny capable of 900 ft lbs of torque/ 12513 is 1200 ft lbs/ 14613 is 1400 ft lbs
5 - cant remember
13 - forward gears

Your 3406 400 hp is probably 1300 -1400 ft lbs of torque.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually that is;
R - roadranger transmission
T - twin countershaft<font color="red">
O (if it had it)=overdrive
95 - torque capacity (X10) --&gt; this tranny capable of 950 ft lbs of torque/ 12513 is 1250 ft lbs/ 14613 is 1460 ft lbs
</font>
13 - forward gears
__________________
F250Ext. 4x4 5spd. GV overdrive,4.10s,23+mpg
Bronco
Some people are like slinkies, Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs!
rmyers2051 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2007, 12:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Williston North Dakota
Posts: 995
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: 9513 13 speed transmission, how strong are they?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Depends how heavy you are using it for. If pulling heavy trailers, no way. If just used as a tandem truck, might be okay. If I can remember back when we were trucking, the transmission info decoded as follows (RT9513)
R - roadranger transmission
T - twin countershaft
9 - torque capacity (X100) --&gt; this tranny capable of 900 ft lbs of torque/ 12513 is 1200 ft lbs/ 14613 is 1400 ft lbs
5 - cant remember
13 - forward gears

Your 3406 400 hp is probably 1300 -1400 ft lbs of torque.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually that is;
R - roadranger transmission
T - twin countershaft
O (if it had it)=overdrive
95 - torque capacity (X10) --&gt; this tranny capable of 950 ft lbs of torque/ 12513 is 1250 ft lbs/ 14613 is 1460 ft lbs

13 - forward gears


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you are both right kinda.
RTO12513 - Roadranger, Twin-countershaft, Overdrive, 1250 ft lbs, 13 speed.

RTO14613 - Roadranger, Twin-countershaft, Overdrive, 1400 ft lbs, (6) Multi-mesh gearing in Auxiliary section, 13 speed.

RT9513 - Same at RT above, 950 ft. lbs &amp; 13 speed. They also had single &amp; double overdrive gearing available for this model, so you could even get a RTOO9513. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

In the end, it all depends what model you are talking about and as to what the different numbers &amp; letters mean. They are not all the same from one Eaton-Fuller to another.

Buddy
__________________
Former Ford Diesel Tech
ASE Certified Parts Counterperson, Automotive, Medium, & Heavy Truck Technician
1999 F250 XLT 4x4, Red, 7.3 6spd AWA5, 3.73LS rear, CCV Mod, APC Headlamps, Autometer C2 Gauges, (Boost,Pyro,Trans), 4" Turbo-back exhaust, XM Radio, AIS, ITP Regulated return, fuel feed lines, Airdog, & 4pos. chip.
My Truck

2001 Ford Escort ZX2 - Black- 4cyl 2.0DOHC, 5spd.

1999 F350 4x4 XLT, CC/LB PSD, 6spd, Aluminum service bed, York Compressor Onboard air, CCV, Custom Intake & Exhaust, Strobes and a few other goodies

RIP Steph F. & Trista J., 4/27/07, you will be missed by many.
budman451 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Other Topics > General Diesel

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Wheel & Tire Center

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:39 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.