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Old 11-22-2005, 08:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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CAT 3406B

I AM NEW TO THE SITE BUT I SEE A COUPLE GUYS KNOW ABOUT CAT 3406'S I HAVE A 3406B AND I'M TRYING GET IT UP TO 600-650 H.P.. I WAS IF SOMEONE KNEW THE NUMBERS TO SOME BIGGER INJECTORS FROM CAT AND IF ANY ONE HAS 550 OR 600H.P. E MODEL THATS KNOWS THE CAT PART NUMBER FOR THE TURBO? ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

[ QUOTE ]
I AM NEW TO THE SITE BUT I SEE A COUPLE GUYS KNOW ABOUT CAT 3406'S I HAVE A 3406B AND I'M TRYING GET IT UP TO 600-650 H.P.. I WAS IF SOMEONE KNEW THE NUMBERS TO SOME BIGGER INJECTORS FROM CAT AND IF ANY ONE HAS 550 OR 600H.P. E MODEL THATS KNOWS THE CAT PART NUMBER FOR THE TURBO? ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!

[/ QUOTE ]

You must want to break something. I drive a 3406B in a 1990 truck.
At the time at 425hp it was the hottest thing on the road, but it also
maxed out the torque limites on all the drive train components of the day. If one were to transmogrify it into a 6oo hp fire breathing monster, I would expect down stream problems.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

I concur, what's your objective, to race the truck?
The beauty of the mechanical Cats is their ability to respond however to bombing if that is your desire, without the need to blow a lot of dough on new parts. You do stand to damage your engine (& drivetrain) if you expect to dial it up and then drive full out without exception.
Regardless, within the fuel pump governor are situated two screws, fuel and torque. I know of many operators who removed them from the governor (and hung them in the glove box) as well AFRC adjustment. This in effect allows maximum rack travel/ fuel delivery under broad conditions, the pump having considerable additional fuel rate available from stock. No need to dump cash.
Why 600-650 from a B model [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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Old 11-23-2005, 10:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

[ QUOTE ]
I concur, what's your objective, to race the truck?
The beauty of the mechanical Cats is their ability to respond however to bombing if that is your desire, without the need to blow a lot of dough on new parts. You do stand to damage your engine (& drivetrain) if you expect to dial it up and then drive full out without exception.
Regardless, within the fuel pump governor are situated two screws, fuel and torque. I know of many operators who removed them from the governor (and hung them in the glove box) as well AFRC adjustment. This in effect allows maximum rack travel/ fuel delivery under broad conditions, the pump having considerable additional fuel rate available from stock. No need to dump cash.
Why 600-650 from a B model [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Mods which presumably create major emissions issues. One thing we noticed about the 3406B at 425 compared to the truck with a 1960's vintage Cummins 335 which it replaced was that it actually would not accelerate as rapidly as the cummins (though it would unquestionably pull a lot more and hold road speeds at the same weights where the cummins died, but what it would do is accelerate without putting out enough black smoke and soot to keep a fruit orchard warm all winter.
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

Well for one thing the reason there is a "B" "C" "E" series is they are all different, the injectors for a 550 or 600 will NOT work in a "B" series.

The question being How fast you want to go?

The answer would be how much money ya got?

The older trucks were speced with components to match the power, vary too much and you will be picking up pieces of rearend and transmissions.
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

Your B model is a mechanically controled motor.
the E models that you refer to are electronicly controled.
To change a mech motor over to an elec controled one is beyond my comprehension to do. (I guess it would be something like making a 7.3 IDI into a psd.) (sensors, wire harnesses, ecm, ect...)

If all you want is the turbo off of a E model you can find them alot of places. Big truck wrecking yards, dealers ect.
But just instaling the E model turbo on your B model wont do much, prob wont notice any diff.

As far as injectors go youll have to stay with B models unless you totaly convert your B to an E. Which IMO would be challenging to say the least.

The 600hp E model might be putting around 500hp to the ground
If you find the right person to diddle with your pump you can get a good increase of power. (come close to matching that)
I would not reccomend removing the 2 screws as the best or safest way to go about turning it up.

600 + rwhp would be tuff to do on a B with longevity and reliability in mind.
I had a B model ATA HMG block in my 87 that dynoed 515hp on the ground. (stock inj) (pump done by majic man) I still have the dyno slip around here some where to prove it. I drove it over 400,000 mi with out a problem.
You have to drive them right or you will wad up everything behind the motor.

And yes you can still show off in it from time to time. Almost to the point of being obsene.

I know you reqested part#s but unless its time for a major OOF overhaul, just getting your pump reworked will give ya more pep in your step. If your talking about an all out race truck, well, thats a horse of a different color...R
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Old 11-23-2005, 06:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

Also If you do Tamper with the Rack screws. Pay attention to the Pyro or you will Burn it down in short order
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

i just had the pump rebuilt and set-up and just installed set of reman nozzles i was looking to install two size bigger injectors in motor can't find a part number, and a turbo off of an e-model 550 cat i heard of guys doing this and getting 38- 41 psi of boost. i know mine engine is mechanical. i am a diesel mechanic myself but i am trying to find some part numbers for the injectors and turbo. also i talking about 600h.p. at crankshaft. i drive and maintain truck myself. i hual grain on eastern shore of maryland and every once in while, you run into an over the roader that his pants are a little to big for him. i just would like to put them in their place every once in a while.
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Old 11-23-2005, 10:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

You are sort of going about this a little backward. If you already had your pump built, it is going to run like crap just increasing injector size. You needed to pick larger injectors, then have the pump calibrated accordingly. Also, of the top of my head, 425 was about the largest of the ratings at that time except for a slightly higher fire rating. Time for a custom build. As for the turbo, find a E series with the HP your after and write down the build number. Take that with you to a turbo shop and they will cross it for you. I still have no idea how all that is going to go together though.
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Old 11-24-2005, 10:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

[ QUOTE ]

The 600hp E model might be putting around 500hp to the ground


[/ QUOTE ]

probably more like 575 at the least. A good 550 E model atleast the earlier flash 5EK serial range would put 525 on the ground and some more.
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Old 11-24-2005, 11:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

Most of the guys around here that used to have the hot 3406B setups have evolved into newer trucks with 550 E models. Trucks work for a living here, 140,000 lbs GVW and mountain roads. Truck engine population up here is 50% Cat, 50% everyone else combined.

3406B's have narrow rod brgs, aluminum pistons, weak timing advances, slow rate in the fuel pump.

Early 3406C's would be a better pick, wider rod brgs, available 2 piece pistons if you really want to modify, fast lift on the pump cam and timing advances that live for more than 2 years.

A superhot 3406B may be neat for a while, but how many pistons can you afford to burn till you get it set right? Even if you get it right the first time, a timing advance failure would cook it by the time you realized something was wrong. There seem to be lots of "experts" around willing to crank it up but are they around to help with their wallet open when you have a meltdown? See the first line of this post as to what others have done after doing what you propose to do.

I imagine you must have a 425 hp now. Rebuild your advance and have it set with the proper dynamic timing kit. Reseal the AFRC. Be sure your fuel pressure is 40 psi idling, should hover around 30 psi fully loaded. Have your barrels and bonnets lapped by a competant dealer if internal leakage is suspected. Check your AAAC and complete intake system for leakage. If more power is needed change rack setting, adjust the AFRC to keep the smoke opacity on acceleration down so you don't stick out, your running on roads full of electronic engines now. Don't forget about your rod bearings, they have a definite life on a B model. I wouldn't crank the power unless the cooling modification has been done on the head, so many things to do to a B model.
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Old 11-25-2005, 12:31 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

Well put ZDRIVER. Took the words right out of my mouth so to speak. If high horsepower is your goal on a B model JBL3406B, it better be for racing and be prepared for regular teardowns. If you are determined to do this, have your original injectors modified by a diesel speed shop. As for the turbo, a very expensive purchase if you are looking for a 600 hp turbo. Maybe your Cat dealer has a used parts dept? Interesting project tho... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 11-25-2005, 02:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

[ QUOTE ]
every once in while, you run into an over the roader that his pants are a little to big for him.

[/ QUOTE ]




There's always going to be someone who gets there first, and ALWAYS some one who can do it faster.I have a 600 Cat and every day someone passes me, I usually make it to the bank on time though [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] And I never took it apart.
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Old 12-04-2005, 02:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
every once in while, you run into an over the roader that his pants are a little to big for him.

[/ QUOTE ]




There's always going to be someone who gets there first, and ALWAYS some one who can do it faster.I have a 600 Cat and every day someone passes me, I usually make it to the bank on time though [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] And I never took it apart.

[/ QUOTE ]And I am willing to Bet You will still be Running with Less problems FAR longer than a C-15 ACERT will.I have dealt with Some of the Carnage from people running Powerboxes on them.They have enough issues stock, let alone putting aftermarket power adders on em.
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: CAT 3406B

2 guys I know used the power boxes, the things cost almost 3 grand and both of them blew head gaskets.

I have enough power, and I have reliability. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] Works real well for me [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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