Cummins 12 V Swap in my 99 PSD

[Mad Max]

Guys,

Please do not make this a PSD -V- Cummins bashing session...

I like my truck and is runs great. It has over 200K on it and the only parts replaced have been a water pump and CPS.

Here is my question. I want to get about 450 HP out of my truck and I have a couple of options. My dad owns a moving business and he has three PSD's and three Cummins. One of the 97 Cummins got recked and my dad is going to part the truck out and he said I can have what I want.

The Cummins has a little over a 100K on it. I know what it will take to get my PSD to run like I want it but I do not know what the cost to install the Cummins and mod it to make 500 HP.

If I stick with my PSD here are my plans.

BTS Twin HP Pumps - $2500
Injectors - $2500
Turbo - $1500
Fuel System - $600

Total = $7100

Since I can get the Cummins for free what I would like to know is what it will take to mod the Cummins to make to 450 HP. I will be doing to work myself so labor is not an issue.

The cost to get the parts for the swap run about $3K and I hope to get about $1.5K out of my PSD. So the cost to get the Cummins in my truck and running will be $1.5K. I just need to know what mods are required to get the Cummins to 450HP.

This truck is my daily driver and I need to to be able to tow when I need it so the mods need to be dependable.

Thanks,

Barry

[mikel]

Is the '97 a stick or an auto? It'll make a difference as to the parts in the pump.


Cam plate -- $200.00
Governor springs -- $100.00
AFC spring kit -- $40.00
Injectors -- $400+ depending on you
Turbo -- $1000-$4500 depending if you go single or twins.

You'll have to figure out what clutch or transmission to run, and spend accordingly.

I'm jealous, I'd definitely like to do this swap.

Oh, Piers Diesel and TST Products are both long-time vendors for Cummins toys.

Mike

[Mad Max]

Its a auto. What is the difference in the pump?

I am going to use my BTS Trans. It will hold up to the 450HP with no problems.

Thanks for the help.

Barry

[v8440]

#0 fuel plate: $0 if you make it yourself (instructions on turning a stock plate into a #0 are available for the asking on various dodge diesel sites)

Turbo to support that hp-probably $1500 all said and done with downpipe

370 hp marine injectors-$450 or so shipped

4" exhaust system-$475 or so shipped

3000 rpm governor spring kit-$120 or so if I remember right

BHAF (big honkin air filter)-about $50 depending on where you buy it

Aftermarket delivery valves-about $250 or maybe less.

Getting timing advanced to 16 degrees BTDC-maybe $200?


Please note that NONE of these things involve doing anything inside the engine. There's no need to. However, this one thing you ABSOLUTELY MUST do if you're not 100% sure it has already been done-the Killer Dowel Pin (commonly called kdp on dodge sites). Without elaborating, this is a design defect in the 12v engines that involved a dowel pin that locates the timing cover on the block. This pin can come out of the hole it's supposed to be in and drop down into the timing gears. The total parts price to prevent this from happening is about $50 the last time I checked, including a new front seal and timing cover gasket. There are parts kits specifically for this job that include the little tab you install that prevents the pin from falling out. Do this while the engine is out and it'll be a breeze. In fact, that's the time to set the timing too.

Now, once that's done, laugh at the 24v guys with their (comparatively) unreliable vp44 injection pump while you drive hundreds of thousands of miles.

[mikel]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mad Max</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its a auto. What is the difference in the pump?

Barry </div></div>

The engines used in auto trans trucks made less HP than the ones in the 5-speed trucks so each mod that you make to them starts out at a lower level.

With an auto trans engine, I would second the recommendation of delivery valves.

Definitely do the KDP while the engine is out, also replace all the rubber fuel lines (they are known to leak and are a bear to get to with the engine in the truck) and the starter contacts since it's all so easy to get to.

Good luck,
Mike

[Mad Max]

What are the delivery valves?

How much HP will the Cummins handle before it needs head studs?

Thanks for all the help guys.

Barry

[BigDaddyT]

When I was building mine up it wasnt til well over 500 hp before I needed to look at c-ringing the head. Your pretty safe under 50 lbs of boost. Many have run up to 60 without blowing a head gasket.

[v8440]

Here's something you won't see on a powerstroke or duramax forum unless it's in the "other" section:

I'm running 45 pounds of boost with the timing advanced about 3 degrees, along with a 50 hp shot of nitrous. Mine still has the original headgasket and bolts, and it has a little over 270k on it.

Joking aside, I am indeed doing what the above statement says. So no, like I said, you won't be needing to go inside the engine at all to make 450 hp, though you do need to take care of the kdp.

[mikel]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mad Max</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the delivery valves?

How much HP will the Cummins handle before it needs head studs?

Thanks for all the help guys.

Barry </div></div>

Delivery valves are parts of the injection pump. They aren't bad to change out, at a high level you pull off the "fittings" that the injector lines screw down to and replace the innards with better parts.

I know guys that run 45-55psi of boost on stock head gasket and bolts all day long.

I understand that you were told that your transmission would hold "450 HP" but you will need to check into that. Most powerstrokes will not make the torque that the cummins will. A cummins at 450 HP will most likely be over 1000ftlb of torque and it will be at a lower RPM. Just food for thought.

Mike

[BigDaddyT]

Yeah the low rpm torque is a killer. Your still balls deep in torque multiplication in the tc. Its why the 518 had so many problems.

[v8440]

Another thing not many people seem to think about is that the cummins delivers it's torque in three pulses per crankshaft revolution, simply because it's a 6 cylinder. The powerstroke and any other 8 cylinder spread it out over 4 pulses per revolution-this almost HAS to make a difference, as the converter and transmission are getting pounded harder at a given level of torque.

[Mad Max]

I am sure my trans will hold up. A lot of guys are running the same trans I have with more then double the power. When Brian built my trans he built it with all the goodies he offers. It is guaranteed no matter what I throw at it.

There are a few guys out there that are running a BTS and a Cummins will well over 600 HP and the BTS is doing fine.

Thanks for the help guys and keep the info coming.

Barry

[59fordcummins]

cummins are better. and im not gunna argue with anybody. the conversion motor mounts are cheap enough to buy imo. dont buy the thermostat housing if they offer it to you. use dodge alternator. "easy just to hook up a regulator and mount it to the alternator bracket" i used dodge radiator and intercooler, but that i dont think was the best idea since i had to leave out the radiator support and my front fenders are sagging now. i have no a.c. bucause i didnt want to mess with it. but you may i dont know. wiring is a breeze for the 12v but i have a 5 speed so i dont know about automatic. my truck is a 94 4 door with a 12v-nv4500-np241 t-case. front half of rear driveshaft is dodge- rear half is ford. thats the easiest way to do it. the cummins will be far better off with a high gear ratio. 3.08 3.55 or 3.73
the 4.10's are way too low and it takes more time rowing gears than foot to floor. my suggestion start ripping engine-tranny. and sell it for what u can get. i wouldn't expect $1500 but it sure would be nice to get that for it. you can get 350 hp reliably without spending a dime on a 97 p-pump motor. make sure you get a 4-k governor spring kit and install while motor is out of truck. i took the governor springs out of my pump and stacked some washers in place so my truck has no governor and my pedal also sticks sometimes and it gets a lil scary lol!

[v8440]

According to everything I read, to run 4k you must change valvesprings. I'm not saying that every single engine will float the valves at that rpm, but for the price ($120 for all 12) you'd be a fool not to change them and prevent piston/valve contact.

[nicksstorm]

v8440,
I noticed you have the 12 valve and was wondering if you could shine some light for me. My uncle has a 91 with only 110k on it. IS this motor as easy to make torque as the 98? He's been thinking about getting a newer cummins for the power, but given the serious price difference he's been thinking about it for a while! How much different is the motor in the 98 than the 91? I know the fuel pump is different ( i think) but other than that? He has a manual and the truck is cherry, so I'd like to see him keep if for a long time. I know he won't sell it, as I've offered him way above high retail for along time now! Thanks, and sorry to hi jack the thread! Nick