Detroit diesel 353 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Ford Diesel Forum / Powerstroke Forum
Go Back   Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Other Topics > General Diesel

General Diesel Discussion about diesels in general. All brands are welcome, please refrain from brand wars. Discussions about types of diesel fuel also go here.

TheDieselstop.com is the premier Diesel Truck Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-25-2007, 11:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Detroit diesel 353

Hello everyone I've come looking for help and advice. I've got a 353 detroit in a skidder that has been causing me nothing but headaches the last little while.

Here's the story. Last spring it started smoking white and burning antifreeze. I didn't have time all summer to get at it so a couple of weeks ago I tore into it and took the head in to get pressure tested. Injector tubes were leaking so they replaced them did the valves while they were at it and gave it backc to me with a hefty little bill. Got a mechanic out to help put the head on as I'm not real fermillar with the rack on them and some other things as well. Got it on and running and all seemed well. I went out the next day to get it out of the shop again and it smoked white again. So what's going on? I've had a discusion going on over on the Red Power Magazine board. But from the advice of another forum member I came over here and asked. General consesus is that it's either a lekay injector tube still or else a o ring on the head.

Is there any way at all for antifreeze to get in the oil from the bottom end of the engine? Shope I took it to says it's o rings on the sleeves but there are none. They had a theory as well about the blower pushing it into the oil or something like that.

Here's a link to the whole story on Red Power if anyone is interested. Red Power discusion

Any help is apreciated

Thanks Ryan
__________________
logging so I can go farming
poor farmer/logger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-26-2007, 04:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Meriden ct
Posts: 285
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

Glad to see that you made it here Ryan.Gone Fishing should spy this soon I hope and there are others here with some good two stroke Detroit experience that may contribute as well.Ron G
Pentastar is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-26-2007, 12:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Lost Wages, Nevada
Posts: 3,244
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

First of all lets get the facts straight. It is a 2 cycle engine, Yes it has liner seals above the airbox area, yes it is possible to get coolant in the oil from either top or bottom. Does it have coolant in the oil??? Check the dipstick for white colored oil or moisture/rust on the dipstick. Maybe from the 'o' rings from the liner but most times not. You would have to have the airbox drain tube[slobber tube] plugged before the coolant enters the oil pan. Possibe though. Remove the rocker cover, pressureize the cooling system to 10 psi and watch for coolant leaking around the injectors. Keep in mind the injectors do NOT have 'o'rings on them. NOT. you are looking at the copper's just around the injectors. If they did the job properly the coppers will not leak. Next is to watch the air box drain while you do this pressure test. If the coolant drains out the air box tube then your liner seals might be fried or leaking. Also if the injector copper install was improperly done the injector tube can leak inside the combustion area and cause white smoke from the engine while running. Bar the engine over while watching the drain tube. Next is to remove the oil pan from the engine. Watch where it comes from. [I am assuming you have coolant in the oil pan]. remember it is possibe to get coolant in the oil pan from the air compressor as well.
Are you sure that the white smoke is not from air in the fuel system?? install a pressure guage on the OUTLET of the secondary filter or on either fuel rail on the head. You want about 15 psi at idle and 55+ at no load speed. Watch for this one...... YOU need a restricted fuel fitting on the return rail before the fuel goes to the fuel tank. The fitting will be either a 'R70 or R80 stamped on it. either will do. This keeps the fuel pressure in the head while running. Also try this, run the return line into an empty bucket, watch for about 30 seconds and then place the fuel line down in the fuel. You are watching for bubbles. There should be NO bubbles in the return line. Also get your watch out and measure the flow of the fuel. You should have .9/g/min @ 1200 rpm. Let me know how you do. BTW, these are the tests I do when trouble shooting white smoke complaints
__________________
95 F250,XLT, 4WD, Auto Trans,bbshimmed,synthetic trans oil,4:10 gears ,Truck Trunk ,Nerf Bars ,crome Mud flaps, Aux. trans cooler, front diff. drain plug. External trans.filter, trimmed snorkel. American wheels water temp guage, front fuel tank mod,Warn Manual hubs,Putman class 4 hitch 212k mi.

It is said if you sit by the river and watch the water flow by long enough, your enemies will pass by. This I believe to be true. It is also possible to watch your loved ones pass by as well.
Wife Candi 08/14/07 missing her always
Gone Fishen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-26-2007, 06:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

Yes, there's definatley coolant in the oil. It's a milky colour and overfull.

Some antifreeze has come out of the air box drain tube but not like it was before we had the head fixed. It ran out like crazzy till it emptied the surge tank. As of yesterday afternoon it hadn't leaked any more antifreeze at all.

It's also definatley antifreeze coming out of the exhaust. It's got that sickening sweet smell to it so I don't think it's problems with the fuel at all.

Something else I should add is this engine was completely gone threw aprox. 400 hours ago. We put on around 100 hours a year.

We checked to copper seals around the injector lines when it was running after I had warmed it up and nothing was leaking then at all.

Unfortunatley there's no way to pull the oil pan when it's in the machine. It's in a Clark 664 C Log skidder. Hydraulic brakes as well so no air compressor.

Are there o rings on the sleeve itself? The local shops are saying that it's o rings on the sleeves but advice from others say there are no o rings on the sleeves. The others think that it's either injector tubes still leaking or posibly a o ring got pushed out of place when the head was set down.

It's a dry sleeve in there correct? If so there shouldn't be antifreeze getting in the oil from there unless it's a cracked blcok right? Which seems unlikely but I supose posible.

Thanks for leading me over here Ron G.

My reply is kind of all over the place but I tried to answer as I read threw you post Gone Fishen.

Thanks for the advice so far

Ryan
__________________
logging so I can go farming
poor farmer/logger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-26-2007, 10:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Lost Wages, Nevada
Posts: 3,244
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

Ok, truth. The 53 series has liner seals. They are in grooves around the seal area in the block. They are NOT on the liner. Next, ok pan removal is out,no coolant in oil, do this. remove the exhaust manifold. Look for coolant coming from an exhaust port. Maybe your head rebuilder did not pressure test the head after rebuild. There are exhaust guides in the head and they ARE removeable. Just not where you have the head now. Head removal is necessary to replace these guides. Basically the guide is driven from the head from the underside. Then the head is flipped over and the guides are installed from the top and set at a certain heigth above the head. Soory to be a bearer of bad news.
__________________
95 F250,XLT, 4WD, Auto Trans,bbshimmed,synthetic trans oil,4:10 gears ,Truck Trunk ,Nerf Bars ,crome Mud flaps, Aux. trans cooler, front diff. drain plug. External trans.filter, trimmed snorkel. American wheels water temp guage, front fuel tank mod,Warn Manual hubs,Putman class 4 hitch 212k mi.

It is said if you sit by the river and watch the water flow by long enough, your enemies will pass by. This I believe to be true. It is also possible to watch your loved ones pass by as well.
Wife Candi 08/14/07 missing her always
Gone Fishen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-26-2007, 11:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

There is coolant in the oil though. So the water jacket does come up to the liner then?

We told them to pressure test the head but like you say I wonder if they did it after they rebuilt it. I don't really trust the shop all that much but we haven't got a whole lot for options around here any more.

Sounds like no matter what the heads going to have to come off again. Hopefully that's where the problem lies and I don't have to pull the motor. This is getting to be one awfully expensive little engine. In the last 800-1000 hrs we've put about $10,000 cdn in it. The engine has been out twice now in that time frame with engine problems. Now the head is giving us grief. The one good thing about this last go around is I learned quite a bit from the mechanic that was out to help us put it on. He's a older guy that has been fixing them since new. He let me time the injectors and set the valves. He was there measureing and checking as we went along.

Thank you for taking the time in trying to help me threw this. I'm pretty green on engines yet as I'm still in my early 20tys. We've never had much trouble with diesel motors up till this one so I've never had much experience with them other then a little bit of fixing and regular maintenace.

Ryan
__________________
logging so I can go farming
poor farmer/logger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-27-2007, 10:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Lost Wages, Nevada
Posts: 3,244
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

You can buy a complete reman engine for less than $10K.
__________________
95 F250,XLT, 4WD, Auto Trans,bbshimmed,synthetic trans oil,4:10 gears ,Truck Trunk ,Nerf Bars ,crome Mud flaps, Aux. trans cooler, front diff. drain plug. External trans.filter, trimmed snorkel. American wheels water temp guage, front fuel tank mod,Warn Manual hubs,Putman class 4 hitch 212k mi.

It is said if you sit by the river and watch the water flow by long enough, your enemies will pass by. This I believe to be true. It is also possible to watch your loved ones pass by as well.
Wife Candi 08/14/07 missing her always
Gone Fishen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2007, 12:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

That doesn't actually surprise me. First go around was 6500, they took the engine out and went threw it and then put it back in. About 4 years ago it went out again with at the most 1100 hrs on it. We pulled the motor and disasembled it and they reasemled it with new pistons sleeves bearings and some other things. That time it was 3500. Now it is giving us grief again. Allready spent another thousand so actually I guess we're up over that now. And we're not done yet.

I pulled the valve cover today and ran it again just to make sure there were no leaks. I couldn't see any thing leaking then at all. After that I drained all the oil out and flushed the engine with diesel fuel. I pulled the manifold off and had a look in there. It was starting to get dark but I couldn't see any visable droplets of antifreeze at all. #1 and #2 were wet while #3 seemed to be dry. Or at least dryer. The manifold was dry but the head was slightly damp. That's going from rad to the back. That is the same way it was before we had the head off.

Checked the rack while I was at it and it's out now too. Not to sure if he forgot to tighten in the locknut on the middle adjuster or what but you can move it seperately from the rest of the rack. It's also stiff to return. you have to pull it back on the controll rod.

Have you ever heard of re boring the block on a 53 series? One local shop says he can order oversized sleeves while another says no way and there's no such thing as over sized sleeves.
__________________
logging so I can go farming
poor farmer/logger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2007, 11:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Lost Wages, Nevada
Posts: 3,244
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

The 53 series is a wet liner engine. There is NO oversize sleeve needed. Just toss the old sleeves and install new ones. The 'O' ring grooves are in the block. Always use 2 liner seals Not 1. Cylinder lits from DDA have 2 liner seals in the kits. The block cannot be bored. Run the engine w/o the exhaust manifold to find coolant out the exhaust. Hope this helps.
__________________
95 F250,XLT, 4WD, Auto Trans,bbshimmed,synthetic trans oil,4:10 gears ,Truck Trunk ,Nerf Bars ,crome Mud flaps, Aux. trans cooler, front diff. drain plug. External trans.filter, trimmed snorkel. American wheels water temp guage, front fuel tank mod,Warn Manual hubs,Putman class 4 hitch 212k mi.

It is said if you sit by the river and watch the water flow by long enough, your enemies will pass by. This I believe to be true. It is also possible to watch your loved ones pass by as well.
Wife Candi 08/14/07 missing her always
Gone Fishen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-28-2007, 11:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 5
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Re: Detroit diesel 353

We were in talking with the mechanic that helped us install the head and he said lets put this mystery to bed and find out what's wrong so he came up this afternoon and we did some checking. First we filled the surge tank right full and fired it up and checked for bubles. Nothing there so we took the blower off and checked the air box and sleeves for leaks. Air box was level with the blower with oil and antifreeze so that wasn't to good. I put a little shot of air into the surge tank and there were no visible leaks on #2 and #3. Can't see #1 from the blower but that was the one that was the wettest and presumably the one that is leaking. We pulled the head off and checked the o rings on the head and all looked good. So I guess it's either the o rings on the block or else a cracked block. Going to pull the engine out in the next couple of days and tear it apart. Probably put new rod bearins in new o rings pressure test the block and head again just to make sure and hopefully get it back together again. Sleeves are still just like new so I think they should be okay to put back in.

Thanks for the help. It's greatly apreciated.

Ryan
__________________
logging so I can go farming
poor farmer/logger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Other Topics > General Diesel

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Wheel & Tire Center

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.