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Old 09-19-2005, 03:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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International 4400 power loss.

Got a 4400 fire truck with DT 570 engine that developed a sudden loss of power. Acceleration from idle to 2000 RPM is extremely slow as if you were dragging a weight behind it. No hesitation or skipping, no smoke and no check engine lights illuminated. Truck is only a year old and has seen little mileage as do most fire trucks. Fuel is purchased from the same high volume local dealer. Two other trucks (4900s with DT 466s) use same fuel and are trouble free. Have an appointment with the dealer later in the week but would be interested in your input as dealer seemed a bit puzzled because it shows no warning lights.
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Old 09-19-2005, 04:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Maybe road speed sensor? Or tranny is having issues so the engine is depowered. Might need a special tool to see if there are any faults with the tranny.
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

If no miss than my money would be on the turbo being stuck. Have someone turn the key on while you look at the turbo. At the bottom of the turbo is an arm that should move about an inch or two when the key is turned on. If it barely moves than the turbo needs to be replaced. Very common problem.
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Thanks! Turbo problem occurred to me also but when it gets up around 1800-2000 I hear the whistle. Would that be the case if the problem is as you suspect?
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Check the charge air cooler and hoses/clamps. If the computer does not see the correct amount of air in the system then it will not allow the injectors to openup and raise the rpm's of the engine. The ones here in town are non electronic and there have been several CAC's leaking. Build a plug for 1 end of the cooler. Make a plug for the other side and slowly apply 30 psi air presure to the CAC. Wait 15 to 20 seconds then shut off the valve to the main air supply. If it drops more than 5 psi in 10 to 12 seconds then you have a leak. Spray all the clamps and hoses with a solution of soap and water to find the leak. No codes will show since there is really nothing wrong as the computer see's it. You are just trying to do something and the computer checkes all systems. It see's a problem and reacts to it as it see's fit. Hope this helps.
Hint: I made my plugs to fit the hose connection at the farthest away connection. This allows me to check ALL the hoses and clamps. They make a plug kit to check the CAC but it checks ONLY the CAC. It does not check the hoses and clamps. They are almost more likely to leak/break as the cooler. Just my 0.02
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

[ QUOTE ]
when it gets up around 1800-2000 I hear the whistle. Would that be the case if the problem is as you suspect?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it would not make boost if the shaft was stuck.

Does it do this all the time or only when cold.
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Engine temp seems to have no effect. It started about a week ago and has been through several cold start cycles but the problem still exists.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

[ QUOTE ]

Hint: I made my plugs to fit the hose connection at the farthest away connection. This allows me to check ALL the hoses and clamps. They make a plug kit to check the CAC but it checks ONLY the CAC. It does not check the hoses and clamps. They are almost more likely to leak/break as the cooler. Just my 0.02

[/ QUOTE ]

Hank when we boost check we check the whole engine ,Biult a snout to fit the turbo snail inlet and apply preasure at that point Works most of the time every once and a while ,ya have to turn the engine to a diffrent spot to get valves closed!On our EGR engine we block off the exhast at the turbo exhast snail to test for exhast leaKs as well!

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Old 09-20-2005, 11:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Of course they will check fuel pressure and road test it to see what the boost is. If this is low than they can run some other tests. They will be able to do a contribution test and if a hole fails than they can do a relative compression test. This is so cool as the computer does everything. It measures how fast the crank turns on each cylinder, if one is faster than an other than that hole is not builing up compression. So nice to not have to pull injectors or glow plugs out to take compression. When doing these tests they should the fuel rate and deviation on each cylinder. Have been lots of problems with injectors becoming weak and not delivering proper shot of fuel. Normally though the engine will have a miss and smoke.
If no problems found after this point and they find it also unsatisfactory than they will have to call Tech Central.
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions. I hope we'll find out tomorrow. If we solve the problem I'll post a follow up.
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Well wouldn't you know it. I left at 06:30 for the fifty mile drive to the shop and the thing ran as strong as ever. I went ahead and, as predicted, no codes. I left the shop about two hours later and all went to hell again. I retrun, let shop foreman drive and he agrees that it has major problems. Hook up computer and all is normal. They are at a loss but I learned that they are not a full dealership but an "associate dealer" whatevet that means and don't have all the diagnostic tools they should. For example they can't read Allison transmission codes. Now I am looking for a bonafide dealership somewhere in reasonable driving distance. I need to find a shop with the capabilities fourhatz talks about. And all this time I thought computerization was supposed to make diagnosis easier.
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Old 10-24-2005, 06:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Finally got truck to a real International dealer 85 miles away. It ran like a tiger on the trip over. They found a big zero save for a "loose ground" so we picked it up and drove the 85 miles home. Still ran like a tiger. Shut it down at home pump to refuel and all went to hell. Parked it for 3-4 hours. Went to move it and it would hardly pull out of its parking place. I emailed International customer service over the weekend. No response yet. If any one has had a similar experience (intermitent unpredictable major loss of power) with a late model DT570 please advise what you did to fix it. We can't keep on making 85 mile trips for nothing. I will call dealer again next date but I am sure it will fall into the "if it ain't broke we can't fix it" category.
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Old 10-28-2005, 07:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

We finally contacted International customer service and discussed the problem with them. We followed the tech service FAQ bulletin provided by International and the acuator does seem to hesitate reproducibly through the first 1/3 of its travel. They further consulted with their people and concluded that the SRV should be replaced and the electronics checked with a special break out cable. They have contacted dealer to advise him to go ahead with the replacement. Will advise further after repairs are made. Thanks to all for the suggestions.
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Old 11-17-2005, 08:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

You were right. It took a call to International customer service and their calling dealer to get the turbo and actuator assembly replaced but we finally got it done. Seems to run great now. Time will tell.
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Old 11-18-2005, 03:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: International 4400 power loss.

Glad to hear they got you taken care of.
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