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Old 03-23-2005, 04:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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International/Navistar-VT365

Is International/Navistar having similar problems with their version of the 6.0/VT365?Are they(International)trying to solve these problems with Ford?I was at the Navistar website and it appears that they are not having any problems with their release of this diesel.Thanks Joe [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

Our biggest problem by far is the turbo vanes sticking. UPS just bought a whole bunch of trucks and I think every one of them has needed a turbo installed. It has gotten so bad that now they want us to take then apart and clean the vanes and install never seize.
I pulled one in last night that has coolant going into the exhaust. Turned out to be EGR cooler leaking.
We had one that had coolant in oil and it was a soft plug in the head not installed properly.
A couple of trucks have had injectors leaking fuel into the oil.
Had to replace the head on one due to a valve sticking.
That really is about all, not much problems with electrical issues.
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

notice how the international version isnt all stoked up like the ford version also they put a decent tranny behind them too. The big three need to look at the big truck builder and see how it is done.
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

[ QUOTE ]
The big three need to look at the big truck builder and see how it is done.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been around this stuff for a while and I wouldn't consider IH to be the leader of the business.
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big three need to look at the big truck builder and see how it is done.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been around this stuff for a while and I wouldn't consider IH to be the leader of the business.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said they were
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Old 03-24-2005, 07:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

Just out of curosity sake, who would you consider a leader in this business? IH has been doing this for a heck of a long time since 1907. They have been building engines for almost as long and I know for sure they have been building diesels since the late 1920's. I do not necessarily think IH is a leader but I think they are leading. The point is as previously stated, Ford for one should take some lessons from IH as a truck builder, which IH does well and have been doing it for a long time and successfully I might add.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curosity sake, who would you consider a leader in this business?

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that obvious? How many IH pickups did you see today? Then look at all other trucks. The only place IH will have a chance is in the MD class.

[ QUOTE ]
IH has been doing this for a heck of a long time since 1907. They have been building engines for almost as long and I know for sure they have been building diesels since the late 1920's.

[/ QUOTE ]
Name a couple IH diesel truck engines that got any industry respect before Ford started using them. You can even include MD and HD trucks. I don't know the numbers but I'd make a small wager that IH has sold more diesel engines to Ford in the last 10 years than they have installed in IH trucks since the late 1920's or whenever they started building them.

[ QUOTE ]
I do not necessarily think IH is a leader but I think they are leading.

[/ QUOTE ]
You lost me there.

[ QUOTE ]
The point is as previously stated, Ford for one should take some lessons from IH as a truck builder, which IH does well and have been doing it for a long time and successfully I might add.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is the point I disagree with. I don't think there is anything to be learned from IH. Especially in the LD truck market. They have had some success in the MD market. Those are two completely different markets. But even so, do you really think there is anything that IH knows that Ford, GM, or any other mfg doesn't know?
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't that obvious? ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually.... no.. I don't recall seeing cummins, isuzu, or another other engine manufacturer pickups. Is that what you mean or am i missin it here.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

Point blank Ford has kept Navistar in business. If Ford had not bought what they have in the last decade from Navistar even being the MD truck king they are they would undoubtedly would have been swallowed up by either Paccar,Freightliner or Volvo some time ago. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

And for the VT-365 reason Navistar doesn't see alot of the problems that Ford does is because there are not consumers driving the trucks that Navistar uses them in for the most part. Not to mention the fact that all of the Electronic controls are different between the 2 and Navistar isn't competing with Dodge and trying to get to monster HP #'s.
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

[ QUOTE ]
am i missin it here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, He didn't say they should look to Cummins, Isuzu, or another engine mfg. He said they should look to IH on how to build trucks. Now if you are talking about engines, they in fact did look to IH for the engine. If Ford wasn't buying it IH wouldn't be making it. Now if it isn't suitable for the application that most of them are being used for, whos fault is that?
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

[ QUOTE ]
"Name a couple IH diesel truck engines that got any industry respect before Ford started using them. You can even include MD and HD trucks."

[/ QUOTE ]

DT466, DT530, HT570 to name 3. The DT466 is the industry satndard for M/D diesels for the last 30 years and shows no signs of losing ground.
All 3 are rock solid diesels, none of which have been used by Ford.

Heck, IH even built diesel engines for Detroit Diesel.

[ QUOTE ]
" I don't know the numbers but I'd make a small wager that IH has sold more diesel engines to Ford in the last 10 years than they have installed in IH trucks since the late 1920's or whenever they started building them."

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's not forget, International/Navistar is known as "International Truck and Engine Corporation". They're in the business of building Medium duty trucks, and medium duty engines. The fact that they sell engines to other companies to use in their trucks is actually high praise for IH. L/D diesel trucks outsell M/D trucks probably 50 to 1. The fact that they sell more diesels to Ford than they put in their own trucks is no great surprise to me.

I bet Caterpillar sells more diesels to other companies than they put in their own equipment, too.


[ QUOTE ]
"I don't think there is anything to be learned from IH. Especially in the LD truck market. They have had some success in the MD market. Those are two completely different markets. But even so, do you really think there is anything that IH knows that Ford, GM, or any other mfg doesn't know? "

[/ QUOTE ]

Some success? You call North America's largest M/D truck and one of the biggest diesel engine building companies in the world "some success"? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Absolutely IH knows a lot that Ford, GM, etc. doesn't know! IH has a far better service network for trucks than Ford GM or DC could ever dream of. They build their own powerplants in-house, built heavy machinery, off road equipment, military equipment. Some day you ought to look at what kind of company you're talking about here. You act as if they were a bit player in the truck market when in fact, they're the biggest in their segment.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

I think some won't mind having the 230HP @ 2,600 rpm 620 ft lb tq @ 1,400 rpm VT365 in their trucks if it had zero problems.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Name a couple IH diesel truck engines that got any industry respect before Ford started using them. You can even include MD and HD trucks."

[/ QUOTE ]

DT466, DT530, HT570 to name 3. The DT466 is the industry satndard for M/D diesels for the last 30 years and shows no signs of losing ground.
All 3 are rock solid diesels, none of which have been used by Ford. IH even built diesel engines for Detroit Diesel.

[ QUOTE ]
" I don't know the numbers but I'd make a small wager that IH has sold more diesel engines to Ford in the last 10 years than they have installed in IH trucks since the late 1920's or whenever they started building them."

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's not forget, International/Navistar is known as "International truck and Engine Corporation". They're in the business of building Medium duty trucks, and medium duty engines. The fact that they sell engines to other companies to use in their trucks is actually high praise for IH. L/D diesel trucks outsell M/D trucks probably 50 to 1. The fact that they sell more diesels to Ford than they put in their own trucks is no great surprise to me. I bet Caterpillar sells more diesels to other companies than they put in their own equipment, too.


[ QUOTE ]
"I don't think there is anything to be learned from IH. Especially in the LD truck market. They have had some success in the MD market. Those are two completely different markets. But even so, do you really think there is anything that IH knows that Ford, GM, or any other mfg doesn't know? "

[/ QUOTE ]

Some success? You call North America's largest M/D truck and one of the biggest diesel engine building companies in the world "some success"? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Absolutely IH knows a lot that Ford, GM, etc. doesn't know! IH has a far better service network for trucks than Ford GM or DC could ever dream of. They build their own powerplants in-house, built heavy machinery, off road equipment, military equipment. Some day you ought to look at what kind of company you're talking about here. You act as if they were a bit player in the truck market when in fact, they're the biggest in their segment.

[/ QUOTE ] sickem duke,i will leave the light work to you. fact; IH is the leader in the medium duty market sales,by a vast margin. fact:the number one and two best selling medium duty engines are the 7.3 and dt466. fact,with both the 7.3 and the 6.0 ,IH pushes the trq level higher in the medium dutys than ford does in the pickups.while selling engines to ford is a bottom line plus,IH has hardly been reliant on ford for survival,wether past or present. fact is,ford medium duty chassis are now built on the same assembly line as IH...
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

Outside of a couple of school buses, I have seen very few VT-365's in IH trucks. IH didn't have pilot injection on their V-8's, and from what I understand, that kept them from having as many problems as Ford was having.
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: International/Navistar-VT365

[ QUOTE ]
" sickem duke, will leave the light work to you. fact; IH is the leader in the medium duty market sales,by a vast margin. fact:the number one and two best selling medium duty engines are the 7.3 and dt466. fact,with both the 7.3 and the 6.0 ,IH pushes the trq level higher in the medium dutys than ford does in the pickups.while selling engines to ford is a bottom line plus,IH has hardly been reliant on ford for survival,wether past or present. fact is,ford medium duty chassis are now built on the same assembly line as IH..."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah man...... To listen to IH being downplayed like it was some kind of destitute junk manufacturer is plain ignorance. I've owned more than one IH truck and they're great trucks. Solid, reliable and economical to operate with outstanding parts & service networks.

IH isn't fancy, like Paccar's stuff, but they build just as tough of a truck and a heck of a lot more of them and they're a lot cheaper to purchase.

Any industry insider knows that Ford beats IH down for diesel engine prices (and everything else they buy) so bad that it's probably not as profitable for IH to keep selling engines to them as some would think.

As one of the only companies in the world that builds it's own diesel powerplants and trucks, I think they're a great company and keep my fingers crossed that they'll continue to survive.

If anything, Ford should just sell their entire truck business to IH, especially since IH already builds most of their truck for them. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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