Jetta reliability?

[blackout]

DieselFan, I would recommend you immediately change your pulleys, tensioner, and belt. There are several vendors that can get you a 100k mile kit for your engine. Squeaks are an indicator of problems down the road. Don't take a chance and don't let the dealer touch your timing belt. Go to a guru or do it yourself. PM me if you have any questions.

[sheepman]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

And as the saying goes, YMMV. Our 2003 Jetta TDI averages 60 MPG which is roughly twice as good as the gasser version. And a gallon of diesel still has a ways to go before it's double the price of regular gasoline.

What Jeeta TDI gets 60 mpg?
Down hill with a tail wind turned off maybe!

[blackout]

60 MPG / 900 Mile Club / 1000 Mile Club - TDIClub Forums
It can be done.

[smunczen]

Vw's have funny problems and some of the worst service dept. I am a vw fan and have been working onthem for years. The part are expensive for sure. The older diesels were the best but really hard to find part for now. I have never bought a new one though.

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by blackout

DieselFan, I would recommend you immediately change your pulleys, tensioner, and belt. There are several vendors that can get you a 100k mile kit for your engine. Squeaks are an indicator of problems down the road. Don't take a chance and don't let the dealer touch your timing belt. Go to a guru or do it yourself. PM me if you have any questions.

blackout, thanks. The 2003 was the first year that VW included the 100K miles timing belt on the TDI. Previously it was 60K. Our TDI has 60K on the odometer with another year of warranty left.

I hear you about the dealer. The majority of interactions with stealer service departments (all brands) over the years has been very negative.

For example....

1. F*ord dealer totally burned the wiring harness out of a new Ford car. Tried to give it back to me with a taped-up, spliced harness where the headlights blinked with you used the turn signal. They refused to replace it but F*rd corporate made them do it. Analysis: They replaced a burned out fuse link with a much larger link. The wiring harness turned out to be the weakest link. Grrr...

2. Isuzu dealer punched a hole in oil cooler in my 2.2L diesel P'up. Oil *all* over the place under the hood. Also a service tech backed into my truck and dented a rear quarter panel while it was in the service bay. I discovered both issues when they told me the truck was ready to pick up.

3. BWM dealer drained the oil in my new BMW manual tranny but didn't put any back in. Went about a hundred miles before it locked up.

4. Honda dealer stripped out the oil drain plug on a new 1990 Accord EX. They talked me into letting them put a "kit" rather than replace the oil pan. Stupid, stupid, stupid me....

5. Acura dealer rotated tires on my new 1994 Acura Legend and managed to cross-thread five lug nuts. Also when they were doing new car prep and installing dealer options, someone spilled a large Big Red soda on the tan carpet in the floorboard and covered it with a mat. Tried to blame it on me. One time they changed oil and only put the plug back in half-way. Noticed it dripping oil just before I was to make a 2,000 mile trip.

Etc...Etc....Etc I've found that the cost of the car has no bearing on the quality of work. So VW isn't the only one. Now I do 95% of my own service where I have the tools and the time.

So I'm inclined to lean towards your line of thinking. But with the injection pump making a noise, and the squeaky timing belt, if I can get them to take care of both in one swoop, I might just do it. The little rotary distribution injection pump is around $1200 rebuilt and $3700 new from the dealer.

And you know I'll watch them like a hawk.

[Westro]

He is NOT averaging 60mpg, no reason to let people believe that the average person is getting that mileage. Diesel fuel is 25% MORE than RUG right now, if you do the cost per mile a high mileage gas car is slightly cheaper to run per mile.

So hard numbers for you
my manual 2002 151488 miles/3101.82 gallons = 48.834 mpg lifetime
wifes auto 2002 45510 miles/1057.73 gallons = 43.026 mpg lifetime

[DieselFan]

Whoa, wait a minute Westro. I'm not averaging 60 MPG? The last three tankfuls, since we've come off winterized diesel, have given me 60 MPG or a little higher. Previously on winterized diesel I was averaging mid-fifties. It has never given me averages in the forties. When I get home, I'll be glad to provide the numbers. My overall average is in the high 50's.

And it's obvious that I don't "drive it like I stole it", rather, I drive conservatively. And I DO NOT use any of the more extreme hyper-mile tricks like Pulse & Glide, kill the engine at red lights, coasting in neutral or draft big trucks. But what I do is keep in the right lane of course, stay under 60 MPH, anticipate red-lights, stop and go traffic, keep the boost under 3 PSI as much as possible. The object is to keep it rolling and don't waste any more energy than necessary. And I use progressive shifting, a method I learned driving 18 wheelers.

It ain't rocket science, but it does require one to get rid of some ingrained habits. As Blackout said, it's doable.

[Westro]

DieselFan: Yes, you DID state, and I quote "Our 2003 Jetta TDI averages 60 MPG"

And you are incorrect in your TB change interval in the VE based TDIs...
Manuals are 80K and Autos are 60K. Most people go to the upgraded bearing to get a timing belt interval of 80K (auto) and 100K (manual). Your 2003 has the upgraded bearing.

Sorry, I have a nit about bad information for potential buyers. As stated, read your heart out at Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by Westro

DieselFan: Yes, you DID state, and I quote "Our 2003 Jetta TDI averages 60 MPG"

And you are incorrect in your TB change interval in the VE based TDIs...
Manuals are 80K and Autos are 60K. Most people go to the upgraded bearing to get a timing belt interval of 80K (auto) and 100K (manual). Your 2003 has the upgraded bearing.

Sorry, I have a nit about bad information for potential buyers. As stated, read your heart out at Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community

Good grief Westro. Are you having a bad day? "you DID state", "you are incorrect", "bad information"...

Take this for what it is, a casual conversation about VW TDI's. No one should ever make final purchasing decisions based solely on what's posted here without doing more research. We all try to be spot-on, and do our best, but shouldn't be taken to the woodshed for minor errors. And you are correct, my information about timing belt intervals was partially incorrect, based on what I have been told in the past. And I now stand corrected.

But on the mileage nit, give me a break. Maybe I could have said I'm "currently averaging" rather than averages, etc. But over all, since I first turned the key, my OVERALL AVERAGE is around 58 MPG. Last summer I was averaging around 60 MPG as well. And during the winter it dropped to mid 50's. And later when I get access to the actual data, I'll be glad to take it out to the third decimal place. The point I was trying to make is that with certain models of TDI's, 50 MPG, 55 MPG and even 60 MPG are possible.

And I'm curious, are the mileages on the vehicles in your signature factual representations of their respective odometers, or do you just wing it?

[short_stuff]

fwiw, my 2003 Jetta TDI, with 86k+ miles on it, consistently averages 40 to 41 mpg on the highway, driving highway speeds (60 to 80 mph). Straight in-town mileage is usually in the lower to mid-30's. I have a driver's log from day one (as I do in my truck). I haven't bothered to figure up the lifetime average mpg, though, because I am perfectly happy with 40+ mpg. We've taken the car on a few round trips from Houston to Kansas City, and from Houston to Dallas. Most of the time, it is 200 mile round-trips to the lake house.
repairs to date:
$3.00 brake switch (twice)
2 temp sensors
alternator
replaced the struts and shocks at 85k miles (much improved ride)

The 2003 Jetta tdi does come with a 100k mile timing belt (auto or manual).
My only complaint is that I didn't get the wagon and a 5-speed. The spousal unit didn't want a wagon because she didn't want to be confused with soccer moms. ;-)
Now, if they would only come out with a 2-door, convertible Jetta TDI, life would be complete.

short_stuff

[blackout]

R U sure about the 80k limitation on the timing belt?
As I said, I have an '01 auto and I just upgraded to the 100kM kit. As far as I know, this is good til 100k miles.
I agree with you about the economics of the TDI vs the gas models. It is not so cut and dry anymore. The other factor is these engines don't like the veggie fuels.
Having a PSD and a TDI, I am not sure I would buy another TDI, but instead a lightweight gas version to cover all the bases.
In theory, when they start building more refineries, diesel may go down in price. Who knows?
I am going to sit on the sidelines and see how it goes.
I'm thinking everything will go the hybrids, including the trucks. They will be diesel electrics and the cars will be either flex fuel gas electrics or diesel electrics.
My .02

Originally Posted by Westro

DieselFan: Yes, you DID state, and I quote "Our 2003 Jetta TDI averages 60 MPG"

And you are incorrect in your TB change interval in the VE based TDIs...
Manuals are 80K and Autos are 60K. Most people go to the upgraded bearing to get a timing belt interval of 80K (auto) and 100K (manual). Your 2003 has the upgraded bearing.

Sorry, I have a nit about bad information for potential buyers. As stated, read your heart out at Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community

[nberchem]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

blackout, thanks. The 2003 was the first year that VW included the 100K miles timing belt on the TDI. Previously it was 60K. Our TDI has 60K on the odometer with another year of warranty left.

I hear you about the dealer. The majority of interactions with stealer service departments (all brands) over the years has been very negative.

For example....

1. F*ord dealer totally burned the wiring harness out of a new Ford car. Tried to give it back to me with a taped-up, spliced harness where the headlights blinked with you used the turn signal. They refused to replace it but F*rd corporate made them do it. Analysis: They replaced a burned out fuse link with a much larger link. The wiring harness turned out to be the weakest link. Grrr...

2. Isuzu dealer punched a hole in oil cooler in my 2.2L diesel P'up. Oil *all* over the place under the hood. Also a service tech backed into my truck and dented a rear quarter panel while it was in the service bay. I discovered both issues when they told me the truck was ready to pick up.

3. BWM dealer drained the oil in my new BMW manual tranny but didn't put any back in. Went about a hundred miles before it locked up.

4. Honda dealer stripped out the oil drain plug on a new 1990 Accord EX. They talked me into letting them put a "kit" rather than replace the oil pan. Stupid, stupid, stupid me....

5. Acura dealer rotated tires on my new 1994 Acura Legend and managed to cross-thread five lug nuts. Also when they were doing new car prep and installing dealer options, someone spilled a large Big Red soda on the tan carpet in the floorboard and covered it with a mat. Tried to blame it on me. One time they changed oil and only put the plug back in half-way. Noticed it dripping oil just before I was to make a 2,000 mile trip.

Etc...Etc....Etc I've found that the cost of the car has no bearing on the quality of work. So VW isn't the only one. Now I do 95% of my own service where I have the tools and the time.

So I'm inclined to lean towards your line of thinking. But with the injection pump making a noise, and the squeaky timing belt, if I can get them to take care of both in one swoop, I might just do it. The little rotary distribution injection pump is around $1200 rebuilt and $3700 new from the dealer.

And you know I'll watch them like a hawk.

WOW! Is that the entire list or just a few examples?

[DieselFan]

There's more I could add to this list. Here's a couple...

1. Isuzu P/Up was leaking oil where the driveshaft enters the rear pumpkin. Took it to dealer, they supposedly fixed it, I went to pick it up. Got into the truck to drive it out of their lot and it made a very loud roar. The dealer was closing but I managed to find the Service Manager. He said it was my tires making the noise. I got him into the truck and we only rolled maybe 30 feet and he said pull it up to the service door. The idiot replaced the seal but didn't tighten it up.

2. My CPS went out in my Excursion. Took it to the dealer, we agreed it was the CPS, figured tops would be $250 to replace. I would have replaced it but I didn't have time to do it. I go to pick up the truck and they want $825 for the repair. Said they found a blown fuse which took a lot of time to find. Meantime they programmed a couple of keys, thinking that was it. Charged $80 apiece for those, and on and on. I was mad as all get-out. Got them to reduce the price to $635. And I stayed mad up until the time I got my recall refund check. FWIW, they charged me $190 for the CPS.

3. And the VW dealer who refused to do anything about my 100K timing belt making a noise at 60K, even though it's under warranty. The belt has obviously migrated to cause it to rub up against an idler or whatever. They said they will do something once it fails, even if it requires replacement of the engine. So until then, do I drive around with a dark cloud over my head, always wondering if this is the day and the place that it fails? Makes you not want to get too far away. Going to have to escalate this.

That's all I can think of for now.

[johnm]

i've had 2 TDI Golfs
first one was 03 stick consistantly got 55 MPG with it. it was totaled by a jag rear ending it. had 30K on it.

second one still have it. 04 auto 35K and get 40+ around town. only troubles ive had was:
1) rear ended by rubbernecker watching airplane land, 2200 damage.
2) it was backed over (front end) by 18 wheeler backing up. 5600 damage.
3) hit by lightening. *ALL* electronics replaced. 7500 damage and still not right. engine check light stays on and no codes???.

time to trade it in. looking at the prius but waiting for new VW's before making final decision. really wanting to wait for a high mileage hybrd to come along.

jm

[redleg155]

The 2001 to 2003 jetta, manual transmission cars are the MPG masters. I bought my 2001, 5sp in May of 2005 with 78,000 on it; it was stock. Today, I have 205,000 on it and it has been a wonderful car. Right after I got it, I had bigger injectors matched and installed, put a fueling box on it, had the EGR deleted, and had a flywheel/clutch upgrade to the VR6 Volkswagen parts - the stock clutch would not come close to holding 250+ ft.lbs. The car runs better than when I bought it and really didn't hook up well until third gear with stock size tires - now, I have 215/60R15s on it (wider but about the same diameter as stock) and it hooks up much better. I'm getting 46 to 49.5 mpg consistently. There are mpg geeks that use all the tricks (in a fun way) and do get incredible results. I just drive mine, with some spirit in my foot, and get the above results. And it's powerband is "in the meat" at 65 to 80 mph - lots of fun. One other trick that is done is to replace the fifth gear in the manual tranny with one with more overdrive ratio - these guys are getting 55mpg and a little more consistently on the highway with "normal" driving and no other tricks.

The stock venting on the 15 or so gallon tank is inconsistent for the average person filling up the tank. I manually vent my tank and fill to the top of the fuel neck tube each time and have done so since I had the car so I'm accurate to within an ounce or so of fuel. The venting on this small tank can actually and very easily add more than 1.5 gallons to a fill up after the fuel nozzle kicks off. You can see how this can really throw off the mpg calculations for those that don't understand how it works.

dieselgeek.com has a 100k mile upgrade kit for the 2001, 2002 cars for the timing belt. Water pumps are often and sensibly replaced when timing belts are changed because the belt drives the water pump.

If my engine died tomorrow, I'd buy another tdi jetta and rebuild mine. I think I'll get at least a couple hundred thousand more miles though. I use Amsoil exclusively and change oil about every 8 to 10k miles.

regards - redleg