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Old 02-16-2007, 06:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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mixing Kerosine with diesel?

Please forgive my ignorance; I'm seeking an education.

I've been told that mixing kerosine with the new ULS diesel available here in NY will help prevent the diesel from waxing (gel) in our currently cold weather. In fact- the source was a well respected fleet maintenance business (mostly big rigs) in town.

I've owned my diesel for 6 years now and NEVER used additives and I've never had problems with the fuel even in -40 F temps in Quebec CA. In NY now, the only diesel availabe (as of 1/07) is the ULS fuel and the very next day after filling up the tank (now that temps are hovering around 10 F), I stalled out on the highway... filter clogged like a candle! Some around here are saying "they just don't have the proper 'winter blend' yet"

So- back to the question- Mix kerosine with ULS diesel? Ratio? Is it safe for the truck? Do you REALLY now or just guessing?

Thanks,
Tony
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Old 02-16-2007, 06:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

I would not mix the two.. Ask any trucker at the truck stops what they use. Additives are the way to go if the blends are not doing the job. Besides, additives are better than blends because you don't lose BTU's per volume (equates to lossed power and fewer MPG) like blends do.
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Old 02-16-2007, 07:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

a bit off topic but where about in NY are ya?
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Old 02-16-2007, 07:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

Kero is the top grade of number 1 diesel, so it would work well. Thing is, you unusually don't pay road tax on Kero, so running in a truck is frowned upon. Same thing as running the dyed farm fuel.
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Old 02-16-2007, 08:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

The last post ("Kero is the top grade of number 1 diesel, so it would work well") goes along with what I was told by the 'truckers' at the big rig fleet maintenance shop.

NOW- if that's true... what's the ratio? I'm hearing 1:4 or about a gallon of kero to 4 of diesel.

Bullridin_fool: I live in Macedon, NY (suburb of Rochester)

On a side note- why should I have to pay a 'road tax' when the only fuel I'm offered won't allow my truck run?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 02-16-2007, 08:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

Kerosene is also dyed red. I wouldn't risk getting checked by the tax man.
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Old 02-16-2007, 09:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

I do not know what the ratio is in your area, but here winter blend is 80/20. When I had trucks that stayed in the NC mountains in winter I always added 20% kero. Never had a fuel problem. The one time that I did not add it to a truck, it quit running at 15 deg. The 595 Case/IH tractor that I used to feed hay with, I ran pure kero all winter.
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Old 02-16-2007, 10:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

K1 is basically the same as #1 diesel, basically thinner so it won't gel as soon. If you are getting gelling then the fuel isn't properly blended.. They will blend in certain amounts of #1 to thin the fuel.

As was said above, K1 does not have road taxes in it. You're OK if you're using it as an "additive" but the guys running it in very high percentages (using it as fuel) are treading on thin ice.

Back in the old days it used to be recommended to cut #2 diesel with gasoline. That probably changed because of people using too much, or not mixing the fuels enough.
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

The distributors in Quebec (just as in most of the US) mix kero/#1 starting in the fall and continue through the winter. They probably mix as much as 60:40 to deal with the cold temperatures in Canada. It's sold that way, you shouldn't have to add any kero or additives for gelling unless you have problems with gelling.
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

I've always been under the impression that #1 diesel is a 50/50 mix of K2,kero and #2 diesel, viscosity is thinner with kero so less lubricy (sp) though it has a good btu #. In the olden days they would make winter blend by mixing in gasoline (50/1 max)
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Old 02-17-2007, 02:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

OK, to set the record straight, the problem faced today, is when ULSD came into existence in Oct 06, LSD (500 ppm sulfur) virtually disapperaed. 500 LSD is still legal and will be legal until 2010, but you can only use it in on road diesels built BEFORE Jan 1 07. What also virtually gone from the supply chain is ULSK. You must put ULSK into ULSD when you blend or it is no longer UL fuel.

So get it? ultra low sulfur kero is scarce as hens teeth. Now to answer whoever said Kero was a poorer choice then additive, NOT TRUE. When it comes to cold flow improvement, Kero is the best. The downside is, it typically costs more, and you get fewer BTU's and in turn less power and fewer MPG. However, when you are on I-90 and its 10 below, are you worrying about losing a gear on a hill or are you worrying about sitting in the breakdown lane with wax in your lines and your teeth chattering?

As for additives, the ones that work the best are the ones that are additized with the fuel while the tanker is being loaded at the distributuion terminal. Fuel such as Gulf Dieselect (available only in the Northeast) is such a fuel. Additives that are added after the fact, often DO NOT WORK if the fuel has already hit the cloud point. The cloud point is the point at which wax crystals form and it is these crystals that literally lock together to form the goo people refer to as gelling.

Hope this helps. Also, keep your fuel filters clean, don't buy fuel at pig pen truck stops who might not have a good maintenance program as far as pumping water bottoms from their tanks, and if you csn get kero, it must be clear-not dyed- and if you are puting it in an 07 truck, it MUST be ULSK. And again- that right jnow is a very scarce commodity.

The above is factual- if you disagree with anything I said, as some one said, then be my guest and listen to..."your cousins next door neighbor whose milkman's brother-in-law knows a guy in the fuel bsiness."
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Old 02-18-2007, 01:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

What does anyone suppose "winter blend" is? It is simply a blend of No. 1 and No.2 middle distillate fuel oil. How much No. 1 (aka kerosene) determines how low the stuff will go before clouding. Good "winter blend" such a found in the Norhtern Plains is often more than 505 by volume No.1.

Jet fuel is simply kerosene with a little No.2 in it for heat content and pump lubrication.

Don't waste your time with additives. Throw in some kerosene - one or two five gallon containers per tankful and don't worry about it. when it warms up, quit mixing the kerosene.

BTW, the kerosene sold around here is as clear as distilled water.
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Old 02-18-2007, 02:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

Back when gasoline was added to diesel for the nogel effect it was leaded gasoline being used. Unleaded gasoline can actually be classified as an abrasive liquid and would never get put in my PSD if I could help it. Kerosine is agood choice for the antigel, for what is available to you today.
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

Dave
where do you get your info that #1 fuel is kerosene.
It goes
Kesosene
#1 diesel
#2 diesel
I've loaded Jet A and kerosene from the same pump at the bulk terminal when I ran tanker trucks and when I loaded at the terminals at Pt Everglades Jet A and Kerosene came out the same pump, there was no #2 added to either.

Also K1 kerosene ( more refined for lamps and heaters) is clear and K2 is red

Heres a good link to anyone interested

http://www.flashoffroad.com/Diesel/D...iesel_fuel.htm
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: mixing Kerosine with diesel?

[ QUOTE ]
Don't waste your time with additives. Throw in some kerosene - one or two five gallon containers per tankful and don't worry about it. when it warms up, quit mixing the kerosene.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard...

Go to the station, fill up with winter blend, the pump will most likely have the temperature rating for the fuel right there, MN it's -30 from Dec 1st- Mar 15th. walk inside find the white bottle of Diesel Kleen, go pay, pour in 4OZ and drive away but KEEP your reciept. on the back of the Diesel Kleen bottle it says plain as day, "NO GELLING GUARANTEED, OR WE PAY FOR THE TOW"

can't get much better then that.

its been -20 plenty of times here and I have NEVER in my life had a diesel gel on me [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

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