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Old 03-17-2006, 12:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Semi truck & trailer value

Need some price info on this stuff.

First of all, they run, are used seasonally currently. Don't know the milage, but the current owner has never opened up the engine (to his knowledge). Used mainly in the fall, about 4 months out of the year. At best, they get about 4K on them a year (I guess) in their current use.

Owner's the 'manager' type, has someone else running the trucks/business. If I recall, one of the engines has a "slight" dribble of oil between the block and head. Both are turbo-ed.

1977 International day cab cab over, single axle, spring suspension. Has a turboed Cummins motor and I think a 10speed tranny. Fixed fifth wheel. Power steering (air steering).

1977 Kenworth sleeper cab over, tandom, spring suspension. Turboed Cummins engine, w/ a 13 speed tranny. Suppose to be an old Alaska rig, since it has no front brakes. Adjustable fifth wheel. Manual steering. Just had a 'used' tranny installed. Has this diesel fuel tank warmer too, rad fluid is cirulated into the tank to keep it warm....an Alaska thing so I was told.

Trailers are prob older, maybe early 70's. They're flat bed, 24 foot (maybe longer, but not over 30 feet) with tandoms, spring suspenstion, steel frame, 10 hole bud tires. Lights work, one might need some wood replaced, other is okay. Not pretty (would look at home in a junk yard). Not sure if one might have been a "longer" trailer that was hacked in the middle and shortened.

I plan to use them for 'seasonal' stuff and maybe the same amount of milage.

I have an idea what to look for in issues. But looking for suggestions on what to inspect closer. Was thinking of jacking up the steers to see if the steering has any play. Also thinking of checking the wet tank for excess oil (sighs of a bad compressor) or takes a long time to air up. Too much "white" smoke during start up I suppse too are things to watch for. Maybe even checking the diff axle oil to see if there are any metal.... (I'd like to do an engine oil analisis, but don't have the equipment to get a sample w/out pulling drain plug.)

For a 'value', they're located in WA state, used in ag currently. Any idea what these old beasts would fair on the market? They're part of a package deal... so I can't say how much the owner is valuing them.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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Old 03-17-2006, 02:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

I'd say MAYBE $6000 for everything, or less.

These trucks are so old there isn't much value left in them.

As far as front brakes on the KW they weren't required until after 1979 I believe, and the tank warmers were for colder climates, I had them on my 90 KW, they were made by a company named "artic fox".

White smoke is cold engine, or water, jacking up the front, also check king-pins and bearings, check the inner whell seals in the rear, and look at the brakes, and u-joints, also check for broken leaves in the springs, check all of this on the trailers too, remember if your operating them on the road they have to meet all the DOT requirements, farm tags or not.

Shake the dashboard in the KW, the older cabovers were known to loosen up.
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Old 03-17-2006, 09:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

It's no problem to take an oil sample out of the drain plug on the rear axle/engine/transmission, I would not buy a used truck without it. Just drive the truck for a while to warm them up, in the case of the engine oil, I use two latex gloves on one hand to prevent getting burned.

If no problems are found in the oil white smoke to me sounds like a "feature" that was common on old engines

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Old 03-17-2006, 10:05 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

[ QUOTE ]
If I recall, one of the engines has a "slight" dribble of oil between the block and head. Both are turbo-ed.


[/ QUOTE ]
Quite common, we used to retorque the heads, that generally cures the "oozing". And like Birken says, those oldies do smoke lots of white/blue on startup, different expansion rates of components, incomplete combustion, etc, until everything warms up.
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Old 03-17-2006, 01:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

Trucks of this age are priced purely on how much useful life they have left in them. Then only cost 25K or so brand new.

If they are beat or just worn out around $1500 each. If the trucks are good clean low mileage, but just real old, they could fetch up to 8-10K. Furthermore, any old KW that is in good shape can have "collector value." I saw a beautiful old 1977 W9 in our shop (I sell KWs) and the guy said he bought it for 35K but the previous owner spent 60K refurbishing it.

Be aware that in some places you can hardly drive a truck that old w/o getting ticketed right off the road. Some states can require a repower to a lower emmisions engine just to get it registered.
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

Thanks for the replies. I'm gonna go give them the once over tomorrow (Sat). I was guessing the semi/trailer combo wouldn't be worth more then 3K each (6K for the whole lot).

Gonna bring my jack, cardboard, coveralls, flashlight and gloves. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

edit-
I'll make sure they are S cam and not wedge brakes....I hear wedge are a pain in the rear... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

Okay....

'77 Kenworth (not sure of model)- suppose to have been off of the Alaska oil pipeline....
It started at least. Took some time for it to fire up. Don't think it was started recently (maybe since last fall). Exahust leak before muffler (rust through). When it did start, it puffed white smoke for some time, actually, while it ran ideling. It was ideling about 5 min. Idel wasn't smooth. Seemed to improve as it ran longer (usually it idels better when warm/hot, if I recall). Can't describe the idel, suppose it was a surge. Bascially, the rpm varied. All brakes looked okay. Drums didn't have a lip. Drive line looked okay. Has an axle interlock (both can drive). Wasn't able to jack her up and check steering....


The 77 IH Cabover
Wouldn't start, batt was too low. The oil leak on the head/block was fixed.

Trailers...
What surprised me, a longer one is included too. A 40foot flat bed with an adjustable rear tandom (slides). Brakes look okay, but it has "California wheels". Not much of a ridge on the drums. Oil type bearings, caps looked oily. What's this worth?

The small trailers...
Brakes look okay. They're still tube type 10.00-20 or 11.00-20. One tire on them looked worn (side of the tread). Not longer ones that were shortened, but the outside frame/edge on one was dinged up. Both are grease type bearings...has a grease fitting on the cap.

Mind ya, this is a package deal. The semi's and small trailers were listed part of the package, but only when I was out there did he mention the longer flat bed was included. There is other equipment with this deal (it's a harvest operation), but I'm just trying to get a "value" on the 'hauling' end of it.


Oh, off topic, but pertaining to diesls.....

The harvesting maching, is powered by a older Ford tractor (ag) diesel (model similar to the 4000 tractor-3 cylinder naturally aspirated), 52HP. Any how, best I can guess, it has over 7000hrs and the engine was not opened up by them. They're using "Restore" in the engine and says it helps..... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]
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1990 E-350 Club Wagon, 7.3L IDI, E4OD, 3.54LS x2
1994 Chevy C2500 6.5L TD, 3.42
1983 F-150 2x4, 4.9L, C-6 w/GV-OD, 3.55 Farm pickup
1981 C-8000, 3208 CAT, RT-6510, Rockwell SSHD Tandems (Swap)
1981 VW Rabbit Pickup 1.6L diesel (project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L diesel (project)
1977 K100C, NTC-350, RT-1110, Tandem
1977 Transtar II, NTC-290, RT-9509 Single
1977 Transtar II, Formula 290, RT0-9513, Tandem (project)
1974 C-750, 391CID, Clark 5 speed, Eaton 2 speed
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

When it idle rough it was loping if i'm correct and I have a 79 KW with a 400 big cam cummins and it tends to lope after setting or when its cold for a few minutes and smokes until you start driving it and when I mean smokes it will smoke you out of a 40x60 building and it was just overhauled 100 hrs. ago just the nature of the beast.
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

Yeah that's what I thought too...some of those big Cummins could smoke like a locomotive with nothing really wrong with them when cold and they didn't really like to start that much either. And when they did start to start they would do it one cylinder at a time.

The wheels with separate drums I wouldn't worry about too much, drums are cheap and so are brakes, if it needs them. Also the oil on the hub caps is normal, especially if the oil level is kept a little high...when the hub warms up a little oil will always be pushed out the vent hole/rubber plug in the center of the hub cap and if the truck is not washed regularly will tend to stay there and look ugly.

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Old 03-19-2006, 07:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

[ QUOTE ]
Need some price info on this stuff.

First of all, they run, are used seasonally currently. Don't know the milage, but the current owner has never opened up the engine (to his knowledge). Used mainly in the fall, about 4 months out of the year. At best, they get about 4K on them a year (I guess) in their current use.

Owner's the 'manager' type, has someone else running the trucks/business. If I recall, one of the engines has a "slight" dribble of oil between the block and head. Both are turbo-ed.

1977 International day cab cab over, single axle, spring suspension. Has a turboed Cummins motor and I think a 10speed tranny. Fixed fifth wheel. Power steering (air steering).

1977 Kenworth sleeper cab over, tandom, spring suspension. Turboed Cummins engine, w/ a 13 speed tranny. Suppose to be an old Alaska rig, since it has no front brakes. Adjustable fifth wheel. Manual steering. Just had a 'used' tranny installed. Has this diesel fuel tank warmer too, rad fluid is cirulated into the tank to keep it warm....an Alaska thing so I was told.

Trailers are prob older, maybe early 70's. They're flat bed, 24 foot (maybe longer, but not over 30 feet) with tandoms, spring suspenstion, steel frame, 10 hole bud tires. Lights work, one might need some wood replaced, other is okay. Not pretty (would look at home in a junk yard). Not sure if one might have been a "longer" trailer that was hacked in the middle and shortened.

I plan to use them for 'seasonal' stuff and maybe the same amount of milage.

I have an idea what to look for in issues. But looking for suggestions on what to inspect closer. Was thinking of jacking up the steers to see if the steering has any play. Also thinking of checking the wet tank for excess oil (sighs of a bad compressor) or takes a long time to air up. Too much "white" smoke during start up I suppse too are things to watch for. Maybe even checking the diff axle oil to see if there are any metal.... (I'd like to do an engine oil analisis, but don't have the equipment to get a sample w/out pulling drain plug.)

For a 'value', they're located in WA state, used in ag currently. Any idea what these old beasts would fair on the market? They're part of a package deal... so I can't say how much the owner is valuing them.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, both are going to require annual DOT class inspections.
I would suggest printing out the FMCSA safety inspection checklist
and doing a DOT class inspection.

Pay particular attention to things you can't fix. An air compressor is easily changed, but if the frame has loose rivets and cracked cross members the truck is junk.

Look at the brakes. ---- If they are wedge brakes, I wouldn't buy them at any price. See how badly worn the brake drums are. -- the amount of ridge beside the shoe will give you a clue. --

Look at the S-Cams with the brakes set.--- If the cam is about to roll over, it's gonna need a brake job including drums --- serious dollars.

On the tandems--- look carefully to see if the tires rub on the spring shackles. --- -- or generally how well the tandems stay straight with the truck when you turn. If they wander all over the place if it is an hendrickson suspension it needs rebushed.

See how many tires won't pass DOT standards.--- radial cracks, cords showing etc, not enough tread?

My system for evaluating an old truck is to look at the tires. You can figure up about what the cost of a new set of tires is. If the truck has a new set of tires, that is what the truck is worth. If the tires look 50% then the truck is worth half of that, unless
there are so many other things wrong that the truck is unservicable.
Then it is worth less because you may have to pay to get rid of it.

that said they are probably $2500 trucks-- $5k for the pair if they can get down a DOT inspection check list without earning a red tag.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:58 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

I buy and sell trucks for a living, and you need to buy stuff like that for the price of parts. Just to give you an idea, I bought a 1983 GMC astro tandem cabover with a sleeper, cummins with a jake, 10 speed, for $1300.00 and it is in good shape and will pass inspection. Old trucks, especially cab overs are not worth much.
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

[ QUOTE ]
I buy and sell trucks for a living, and you need to buy stuff like that for the price of parts. Just to give you an idea, I bought a 1983 GMC astro tandem cabover with a sleeper, cummins with a jake, 10 speed, for $1300.00 and it is in good shape and will pass inspection. Old trucks, especially cab overs are not worth much.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is approximately my formula.--- For the price of the tires.

Trucks head for the farm for their end of life cycle and after they have been there fore a while, their time has come.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I buy and sell trucks for a living, and you need to buy stuff like that for the price of parts. Just to give you an idea, I bought a 1983 GMC astro tandem cabover with a sleeper, cummins with a jake, 10 speed, for $1300.00 and it is in good shape and will pass inspection. Old trucks, especially cab overs are not worth much.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is approximately my formula.--- For the price of the tires.

Trucks head for the farm for their end of life cycle and after they have been there fore a while, their time has come.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was doing more talking w/ a coworker (also drove long/short haul) and that's what he said... look at the tires. Also said cab overs are not worth much. Same w/ short flat bed trailers (unless you want it as a pup). The flat beds in question are older then the trucks, sides are dinged up, one doesn't have any strap down for cargo (bulk tanks are mounted on it). The 40 footer, worth more, assuming there is a buyer and one can sit on it..... As far as I can tell, they will pass inspection, granted, they are owned by a "farm". [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/depressed.gif[/img] One was owned by a fruit wearhouse and they took it out of service and the current owner bought it. Go figure.

I saw a late 70's maybe early 80's GMC cab-over semi, single axle, Cummins turbo engine, has a wet kit (runs hydrualics). Not sure of the tranny, couldnt' get close. I knew where it came from and the 'shop' mechanic made a comment that he wouldn't buy the old trucks (granted, it could mean anything). Any how, the asking price on the sign was $4025!

From what I've seen, this area, people tend to "over value" things, even if they are old. Most don't want to head toward the big city to see what is being sold there. Coworker said his cousin found a 90's Freightliner that was an old Ryder semi for right around $5000 by going towards the city.

Thanks for the replies.
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1999 E-350 Cub Wagon, 7.3L Power Stroke, E4OD, 3.55
1990 E-350 Club Wagon, 7.3L IDI, E4OD, 3.54LS x2
1994 Chevy C2500 6.5L TD, 3.42
1983 F-150 2x4, 4.9L, C-6 w/GV-OD, 3.55 Farm pickup
1981 C-8000, 3208 CAT, RT-6510, Rockwell SSHD Tandems (Swap)
1981 VW Rabbit Pickup 1.6L diesel (project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L diesel (project)
1977 K100C, NTC-350, RT-1110, Tandem
1977 Transtar II, NTC-290, RT-9509 Single
1977 Transtar II, Formula 290, RT0-9513, Tandem (project)
1974 C-750, 391CID, Clark 5 speed, Eaton 2 speed
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Old 03-25-2006, 02:12 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

Well, made an offer for the package deal..... fingers are crossed.... so I'll see if I'm the owner of an old 77 KW and IH.....


[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/depressed.gif[/img]
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1999 E-350 Cub Wagon, 7.3L Power Stroke, E4OD, 3.55
1990 E-350 Club Wagon, 7.3L IDI, E4OD, 3.54LS x2
1994 Chevy C2500 6.5L TD, 3.42
1983 F-150 2x4, 4.9L, C-6 w/GV-OD, 3.55 Farm pickup
1981 C-8000, 3208 CAT, RT-6510, Rockwell SSHD Tandems (Swap)
1981 VW Rabbit Pickup 1.6L diesel (project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L diesel (project)
1977 K100C, NTC-350, RT-1110, Tandem
1977 Transtar II, NTC-290, RT-9509 Single
1977 Transtar II, Formula 290, RT0-9513, Tandem (project)
1974 C-750, 391CID, Clark 5 speed, Eaton 2 speed
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Old 04-05-2006, 01:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Semi truck & trailer value

[ QUOTE ]
Well, made an offer for the package deal..... fingers are crossed.... so I'll see if I'm the owner of an old 77 KW and IH.....


[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/depressed.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm the 'new' owner of a 1977 IH and KW cab over. The reported "sales tax" price for the vehical package was $5800.00 He included a 40ft flat bed also.....


[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]
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1999 E-350 Cub Wagon, 7.3L Power Stroke, E4OD, 3.55
1990 E-350 Club Wagon, 7.3L IDI, E4OD, 3.54LS x2
1994 Chevy C2500 6.5L TD, 3.42
1983 F-150 2x4, 4.9L, C-6 w/GV-OD, 3.55 Farm pickup
1981 C-8000, 3208 CAT, RT-6510, Rockwell SSHD Tandems (Swap)
1981 VW Rabbit Pickup 1.6L diesel (project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L diesel (project)
1977 K100C, NTC-350, RT-1110, Tandem
1977 Transtar II, NTC-290, RT-9509 Single
1977 Transtar II, Formula 290, RT0-9513, Tandem (project)
1974 C-750, 391CID, Clark 5 speed, Eaton 2 speed
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