Where is the Cummins engine??? 6.4?

[MackE7]

"Before you get to wound up on the Cummins reliability you ought to check out these two threads. Some serious problems my friends."

Serious problems ? About the only problem the Cummins has in school buses is that the front drive is too light to hold a big honkin air compressor. I agree the 5.9 is a little light in a 30,000lb school bus, but it is perfect in a pickup truck.

The 24Vers had lift pump problems. Can you show me a fuel pump that won't fail when the fed with an inadequate fuel supply. Everyone knows about the lift pump problem and it is a $100 fix.

The thing I like about I6s is that they are simple to work on. The thing I like about the Cummins is that it is tough and doesn't require a lot of work.

Case uses 5.9s in tractors and they stand up. Care to put a Duramax or a 6L in a tractor and see if it lives ? I think Cummins has done an excellent job at building an engine that is versatile enough to fit both needs.

[superf350]

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"Before you get to wound up on the Cummins reliability you ought to check out these two threads. Some serious problems my friends."

Serious problems ? About the only problem the Cummins has in school buses is that the front drive is too light to hold a big honkin air compressor. I agree the 5.9 is a little light in a 30,000lb school bus, but it is perfect in a pickup truck.

The 24Vers had lift pump problems. Can you show me a fuel pump that won't fail when the fed with an inadequate fuel supply. Everyone knows about the lift pump problem and it is a $100 fix.

The thing I like about I6s is that they are simple to work on. The thing I like about the Cummins is that it is tough and doesn't require a lot of work.

Case uses 5.9s in tractors and they stand up. Care to put a Duramax or a 6L in a tractor and see if it lives ? I think Cummins has done an excellent job at building an engine that is versatile enough to fit both needs.

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Tell me why either one of those engines wouldn't last in a tractor? If you could fit the V-8 in their it would work. Shoot, govern that puppy at around 2,000 rpms and just let it go. Last time I checked tractors just go up and down the field all day long draggin implements. I doubt it would over work the little 6.0 or 6.6. Especially when most of the little tractors aren't making probably more than 60/80 horse. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

[malkiman]

YUP! What he said.

[444xt]

Hello! Short of going to Brazil, does anyone know how to get an engine serial number from a factory Cummins powered Super Duty? It would be interesting to see how it is speced.

[i6DZUL]

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Tired of v8 diesels? THough you dont own any? Regardless, just how many non V8 diesels are there out there? I believe that the huge majority are V8. I6 are made by Cummons and almost no one else. Would love to see commons come out with a V8. Would shut up you Cummons guys...for the most part.

Your not buying Ford diesels anyway, so what do you care about the 6.4?

I beleive they all have extrenuous testing and go 250k to 300k before major overhauls are needed. I dont think the cummons is sleeved anymore either is it?

Peace

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So you think Cummins is the only engine co. making I6's? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] CAT, Detroit, Mack, Navistar, Isuzu, as well as those I just plain forgot about have I6's in their line up. Open 100 class 8 tractor hoods and 98 will have an I6 under there.

The 5.9 I6 Cummins is not sleeved.

[nhbanshee1]

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6.OL took years and millions to develop no doubt. Every new design especially with all the requirements for better milage/less polution increase complexity. No human on this planet can test every EVENTUALITY in a lab or on a test track. YOU are the lab rat for every product you use. Every new product has issues. Yes, even Japanese :-)

Perhaps if Ford built its own diesels they could get problems resolved quicker. Try working in the corporate world a few years and see why this aint so. Try developing software a few years and understand why bugs exist and this stuff is just insidiously complex. Its amazing half the stuff we live with works at all. Look at F16s - no two are alike.

I am frustrated as anyone because I HAVE JUST PUT OFF BUYING a Ford F250 diesel because they need time to get all these issues worked out. But why on earth would Ford dump millions invested? Its cheaper just to keep working to tweak the engine, which is basically a good platform from what I have read here over the past three years (I don't post much...)

Yeah, I'm pissed at Ford but have faith they'll get IH to get this engine right. All the issues I've read about now appear to be posted as TSBs. Its just plain naive to float rumours that they'll jump ship to Cummins or whatever for the SD. Work in the corporate world and you'll realize things just don't work that way. Quit blowing smoke, please.

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The 6.0 does have alot of new technology, and it does take time to work out the bugs, and alot of bugs wont show up until the engine is in the real world, being used everyday in all different enviroments. I dont have a problem with that, and I bet that most people would agree, however, alot of the problems that Ford and IH are having with this engine ARE NOT being caused from all the new technology!!!!

How long has Ford and IH been building engines?

Long enough to be able to design head bolts and head gaskets that dont fail.
Long enough to make, and route, a wiring harness that doesnt chafe.
Long enough to know that using a plastic CAC tube that is holding in 25+ PSI of boost is not a good idea.
etc, etc, etc.

If Ford and IH had not over looked the basics, the "high tech" issues would not be as big a problem.

Also, it may have been siad already somewhere else on the board and I just havent read it, but the new 6.4 will have alot of differneces over the current 6.0l.

According to a couple different engineers at Ford that Ive spoke with, the head gasket/head bolt problem the 6.0l is having is fixed. The 6.4 will have a composite gasket and will not be using torque to yield bolts.
It is not going to use the HEUI system the 6.0l is using, it instead will use a common rail high pressure fuel system (same as the Cummins and Cat engines)
And thanks to the twin turbo system, no more VGT.
It will unfortunitly still have the EGR and EGR cooler.

[jlasich]

[ QUOTE ]
Tell me why either one of those engines wouldn't last in a tractor? If you could fit the V-8 in their it would work. Shoot, govern that puppy at around 2,000 rpms and just let it go. Last time I checked tractors just go up and down the field all day long draggin implements. I doubt it would over work the little 6.0 or 6.6. Especially when most of the little tractors aren't making probably more than 60/80 horse. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

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I take it you've never worked on a farm before? Farm duty is some of the toughest duty an engine can face. Besides the dusty and dirty environment, it takes more power than you realize to work with some of these implements. You're going to need at least 130 PTO hp to drag a 3-bottom rollover plow efficiently and almost double that to drag a five shank ripper 1-1/2 to 2 feet in the ground. Take a look at some specs for self propelled forage harvesters. Well over 300 hp needed for them.

You'd have to govern the PSD/Duramax a little higher than 2000. To operate a PTO efficiently, the throttle needs to be at 2100 rpm. The 5.9l Cummins is available in tractors upto 150 PTO hp. Would the 6.0l be able to survive in these conditions. I don't know. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

[Mike Lewis]

Ford should look in the mirror before blaming International for the problems with the 6.0.

From what I understand, the 6.0 works fine in applications where Ford's electronics aren't involved.

[Mike Lewis]

Ford's numbers are down because GM's are up. Ford refuses to sell these trucks for what they're worth, which keeps perspective buyers on a tight budget, like myself, from buying.

I've been on the fence for a couple years... unfortunately, I waited too long (got married, have a stepdaughter and a baby boy of our own... and no cash anymore!)

[062283]

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That's some interesting information. Where did you read/hear that? I would like to learn some more about the circumstances surrounding the demise of the 7.3...

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Here is one article on it. Here is another that talks about it. There are others, some of which go into greater detail but those two will give you an overview.

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teamroper60,
Very informative reading. I learned a lot. Thanks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
RR

[Mike Lewis]

The 300 I-6 also outpulls the 302. I know... I never could keep up with my cousin's '95 I-6 when pulling a trailer. Both trucks were automatics with the same gear ratio... mine was a '91 with a 302 that ran well unloaded.

[Mike Lewis]

The 300 I-6 is PERFECT for half ton pickups.

You can't compare it to a diesel engine in a 3/4 or 1 ton application--it wasn't designed for that purpose.

The I-6 will pull as well as many V-8 gasoline engines of its day and will get better mileage doing it. FACT.

[MackE7]

"Tell me why either one of those engines wouldn't last in a tractor? If you could fit the V-8 in their it would work. Shoot, govern that puppy at around 2,000 rpms and just let it go."

The only problem with the 6L is that it doesn't make any torque below 2000 RPM.

For those that aren't familiar with ag/construction equipment, the engines need to be bulletproof, high torque, have good fuel economy and be nearly maintenance free.

Lets check how the 6L does. It certainly isn't bullet proof. It isn't a high torque engine. It is a high reving engine. It doesn't have good fuel economy and it requires a lot of maintenance. I wouldn't want a 6L in my tractor. I don't think it would work in a field tractor at all and that is why I don't think it is used in them. The 466 is used in some construction and ag equipment. The only industrial application I know of for a T444E is street sweepers and I know of customers who complain about them.


"Last time I checked tractors just go up and down the field all day long draggin implements. I doubt it would over work the little 6.0 or 6.6. Especially when most of the little tractors aren't making probably more than 60/80 horse."

Ha ! Th 5.9 is used in equipment up to and over 200 HP. You need to take a closer look at modern tractors. They are very high performance machines. Cummins practically owns a lot of the market with the 5.9. It has proven to be a very tough, versatile engine.

A diesel engine in a pickup truck has a holiday compared to a tractor. The duty cycle in a tractor is the highest of almost any application other than power generation. There is no ram air effect to assist with the cooling. The engine is always operating at high boost pressures. And they operate at fixed speeds (2000RPM) for thousands and thousands of hours.

re Cummins sucking the hind tit... I don't know what your metric is, but mine doesn't involve drag racing and making smoke. When I buy a $45,000 truck, I want an engine that will pull for 250,000 miles without any problems. That is priority #1. My truck can't be in the shop. I don't have time to deal with exhaust backpressure valves and twin turbos and crap like that. It might be fine for a "diesel enthusiast" to spend time on that sort of stuff, but I can't.

It has to start and run at full performance day in and day out for a long, long time.

I really don't care if one engine is 10 HP less than another. All these engines will pull my loads at 65MPH, but which one is going to do it the easiest and last the longest doing it. From what I can tell of the 2005 engines, that engine is the Cummins.

I think that Ford is kind of getting caught up in the performance diesel market niche. All you have to do is look on these boards and see how many people are interested in drag racing their diesels to see what I mean. Ford is catering to that. But that kind of power doesn't work well for the RVers and the work truck guys like me.

[Macattak1]

Greetings,

Thanks for correcting me. I was under the impression that most over the road/18 wheelers were v8s? No?

They should all be sleeved should they not? Much cheaper rebuild.

Peace

[062283]

A majority of them are straight 6's. There have been V designs over the years however.